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| falktx_ | thelonious bot is not here :( | 00:22 |
|---|---|---|
| falktx_ | the netsplit probably killed him | 00:23 |
| Alex-EU | falktx_: farewell thelonius.......... | 00:26 |
| falktx_ | guitarman: ping ? | 00:28 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter_: hehe, a bit faster now, with a fresh kernel straight out of the oven. | 00:39 |
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| guitarman | falktx: thelonius will be back | 07:22 |
| guitarman | 1 moment | 07:22 |
| guitarman | see what did i tell you | 07:23 |
| guitarman | poof!!!!! | 07:23 |
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| guitarman | welcome back thelonius | 07:23 |
| guitarman | hi thelonius | 07:23 |
| thelonius | Hi guitarman! | 07:23 |
| guitarman | :) | 07:23 |
| falktx | hi thelonius | 07:23 |
| thelonius | Hello falktx | 07:23 |
| guitarman | if I knew more python i'd make him more interesting | 07:24 |
| guitarman | i'm working at learning python... slooowwly | 07:24 |
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| JackWinter_ | alex-EU-1: hey, was the patch any good for you? | 17:59 |
| JackWinter_ | and heh, if you started building kernels again, you could get a good old rt going too :) | 18:00 |
| JackWinter_ | actually if i don't misremember i seem to recall that reaper for some reason uses less cpu under rt... | 18:00 |
| JackWinter_ | if you want me too, i could try rebooting and see if there is some truth to that or if i'm confused | 18:01 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I installed the whole wine-staging deb. Running better so far. | 18:02 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: The kernel was ok, but i missed a couple of things, and have to do it again. (Doh)\ | 18:02 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: My latency has more or less halved, with the occasional glitch. But at least i can input with less midi adjustment of notes, which is good. | 18:03 |
| JackWinter_ | if you just start wine with chrt -f -p 55 wine or so, i don't know if you really need the rt patch. suppose i'll have to look into that too | 18:04 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I've been shoving large amounts of midi for testing, and i think i'm going to split the instruments up a little more. | 18:04 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I'm running wine with 65 at the moment. Been testing a few settings. More to do. | 18:04 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I'm waiting for falk to finish removing the osc stuff, and closing ping setting, asnd i'll start adding more vsts. | 18:05 |
| JackWinter_ | i noticed that at 64 samples buffersize i had to up the preprocess (anticipative) to 400ms or so. after that i have no xruns at all, even at 64 samples. except for the ones that are due to reapers code itself. when starting the program and starting and stopping the transport. but i can record for hours or playback mixes while recording a track monitored through fx without xruns | 18:06 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I have a question regarding priorities. I've set quite a few manually, and the system behaviour has improved quite a bit. When an app has multiple threads, it's generally 1 that has the priority, i.e. Jack -P70, but the rest of the threads cruise along at 20. | 18:07 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: yep you're recording audio though, and those settings will affect what you're doing. | 18:07 |
| JackWinter_ | hmm, how do you see that? 20 might mean that it's simply sched_other without nice | 18:07 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I'm running 150+ tracks of midi. | 18:08 |
| JackWinter_ | anticipative will affect playback not recording | 18:08 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: Yes, that's the bit i'm confused about. | 18:08 |
| JackWinter_ | i'd imagine that it would work for midi playback too | 18:08 |
| JackWinter_ | do you have tuna? | 18:08 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I've tried it, and it made no difference. It's carla and the plugins (good name for a band) that are doing the heavy lifiting. All reaper is doing is outputting midi. | 18:09 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: Couldn't find a deb package fot it. | 18:09 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: let me get a pic of my htop window, and you'll see what i mean. | 18:10 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: http://i.imgur.com/pHGGkYH.png | 18:11 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: note that although i've told carla to run any wine at higher priorities, the plugin process instances are all the same. | 18:12 |
| JackWinter_ | alex-EU-1: oh well then anticipative won't do anything (i think) | 18:13 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: The curious part is, Reaper processes all run at a higher priority. I assume because it's properly multi-threaded | 18:13 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: But i'm just guessing at this point. | 18:14 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I could go through with chrt, and manually raise the prios of all the plugin instances, but i'd be here until tommorow. :) | 18:14 |
| JackWinter_ | yeah, 20 means that it's sched_normal and not niced. the negative values are the rt threads | 18:14 |
| JackWinter_ | notice that it's off one from the priorities that you set too | 18:15 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I've changed sched_normal to fifo for a couple of things as a test, and i manually adjusted the nice setting for 2 plugin instances, as you can see. | 18:15 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: But i don't know how to change the prios/fifo of all those plugin processes at once. | 18:16 |
| JackWinter_ | i guess if you run carla with chrt-f -p 55 carla, then carla and all the threads/processes it creates would be realtime too | 18:17 |
| JackWinter_ | or you can ask falktx to add code to set priorities | 18:18 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: if you look further down that pic, carla/python is already running at -85. | 18:18 |
| falktx | you shouldn't run carla as high prio | 18:19 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: So the plugin instances don't take the prio setting from carla. | 18:19 |
| falktx | only the rt thread should have that | 18:19 |
| JackWinter_ | i guess you'd have to write a script to get all the PIDs and then run chrt on them. but note that there is a difference between a process and a thread... | 18:19 |
| alex-EU-1 | falktx: I've been testing, and you're right, it's too high. | 18:19 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I've been learning that the last couple of days. :) | 18:19 |
| JackWinter_ | the thread shown as -85 would be the jack callback running at 89-5=84 | 18:20 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: The interlink has been getting hammered into the wee small hours. | 18:20 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: Yep. | 18:20 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I thought about a script, but the pids change.......... | 18:21 |
| JackWinter_ | but to be honest i have no idea how all this works with plugins in carla, so i don't really know what to advice :) | 18:21 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: yeah, np. I don't know either, it's all guesswork. | 18:21 |
| JackWinter_ | yeah, the pids would change everytime you start and stop | 18:21 |
| JackWinter_ | i had an idea regarding your mem alloc problem. could it possibly be because you don't have a swapfile? | 18:22 |
| JackWinter_ | or swap partition | 18:22 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I've tried with, and without, but it's a good thought. I read quite a bit about swapfiles | 18:22 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I do have a swap partition. | 18:23 |
| JackWinter_ | you could create a 64-128gb swapfile on one a ssd just to test | 18:23 |
| JackWinter_ | how big is the swap partition? | 18:23 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I was thinking that too. | 18:23 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: 4GB | 18:23 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: i also read up on RAM swapfiles, but that's got downsides too. | 18:24 |
| JackWinter_ | google how to use a swapfile instead and setup a big one, maybe that's the reason you can't get more than 28gb going in a single process. or maybe not, i don't really know, but was a thought that struck me | 18:24 |
| JackWinter_ | i mean just to test, no need to repartition if it's no good. | 18:25 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: yes, i may well do that. | 18:26 |
| JackWinter_ | think i'm gonna get a ssd to keep my working audio files on (not the archives, that gets too expensive), and then i could give this machine a nice big swap file for when chromium has eaten all the ram... | 18:26 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: good idea, imho. | 18:27 |
| JackWinter_ | have close to 1 tb of multitrack recordings of my band by now :) | 18:27 |
| JackWinter_ | don't really need it all, but i hate throwing away data :) | 18:27 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I've got 3 ssds here, and the difference in performance is night and day. | 18:27 |
| JackWinter_ | my system is always running and is quick enough, so i figured i don't really need ssd, but for reaper it would be nice now that i've discovered that disk io is a bottle neck on linux. | 18:28 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: it is, did some readion on that a little while ago, when i configured my ssds. | 18:29 |
| JackWinter_ | tried the deadline scheduler, and even tried realtime ionice with cfq, but it's simply not good enough to play back audio and let the system do normal file access on the same drive :( | 18:29 |
| JackWinter_ | so i'd get a couple of xruns a day while using the system for other purposes. | 18:30 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: i've got deadline set | 18:30 |
| AutoStatic | JackWinter_: what filessystem(s) are you using? | 18:31 |
| JackWinter_ | yeah, i run deadline too, but i think it's recommended for ssd | 18:31 |
| JackWinter_ | ext4 | 18:31 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: Separate drives for audio are a no-brainer, imho. | 18:31 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: yep, ext4. | 18:31 |
| JackWinter_ | yeah, i just thought that using cfq with ionice would work as advertised, especially as i have large disk buffers in reaper, but it's just not good enough. | 18:32 |
| JackWinter_ | hell it's even not good enough for ardour | 18:32 |
| AutoStatic | What options are you using with ext4? | 18:32 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: A server farm isn't good enough for ardour, with loads of tracks. Been there done that. | 18:32 |
| AutoStatic | Maybe youcan gain something there | 18:32 |
| JackWinter_ | AutoStatic: at the moment only noatime | 18:33 |
| alex-EU-1 | AutoStatic: ^^ | 18:33 |
| JackWinter_ | alex-EU-1: no ardour seems a little bit brittle :S much as i admire what paul has done for linux audio i wish ardour was much better | 18:34 |
| JackWinter_ | of course i don't know if systemd does something behind my back mounting the partitions :) | 18:34 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: i think we all wish it was better. But life goes on, and if it's not suitable, then there are other options. | 18:34 |
| JackWinter_ | fstab is mostly decoration on a systemd system :) | 18:35 |
| AutoStatic | For what it's worth: http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#filesystems | 18:35 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: It may well be. I've not got into systemd settings yet. | 18:35 |
| alex-EU-1 | AutoStatic: Yep, read that. | 18:35 |
| JackWinter_ | mount says /dev/sdc1 on /home type ext4 (rw,noatime,data=ordered) | 18:37 |
| JackWinter_ | data ordered must be systemd... grrr, i hate losing control over my system | 18:37 |
| JackWinter_ | not that i know what it does, but it's not in my fstab | 18:38 |
| JackWinter_ | but i'll just get a ssd for the projects i'm working on, and a nice big swap partition to shuffle off chromiums memleaks to :) | 18:38 |
| JackWinter_ | maybe i'll store the few games i use on it too | 18:39 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: After many years of learning how to use init files, they change it to a non transparent monolith. :) | 18:39 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I can't keep up. | 18:40 |
| JackWinter_ | i can't keep up either. and it's annoying because they keep changing it. think i've disable storing of coredumps in the journal 3 times, i've had to change how it forwards stuff to syslog a couple of times. unless it's my distro playing with itself | 18:42 |
| JackWinter_ | i know most of the config files and now i have to learn all new stuff that keeps changing aswell :S | 18:43 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: My point exactly. | 18:43 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I've got notebooks full of stuff that has suddenly become redundant | 18:44 |
| JackWinter_ | yeah, i forsee devuan in all our futures :) | 18:44 |
| AutoStatic | JackWinter_: data=ordered is the default | 18:46 |
| JackWinter_ | but i'm super excited that reaper runs this well on linux now. this is what i've been searching for the last couple of years, and most likely all the time it was a combination of a config setting and the fact that i didn't keep the data on a separate drive | 18:47 |
| JackWinter_ | AutoStatic: ok, thanks. that puts my nerves at rest | 18:47 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: I think i'm going to have to build myself a proper RT kernel to get any more out of this. | 18:49 |
| JackWinter_ | alex-EU-1: it most certainly help. | 18:52 |
| JackWinter_ | helps | 18:52 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: the last RT kernel patch is 3.14, yes? | 18:54 |
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| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: ok, building, see if this works better than the last one. | 19:11 |
| JackWinter_ | yes, 3.14 (afaik) | 19:25 |
| AutoStatic | https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/ | 19:26 |
| LAbot | Title: Index of /pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt (at www.kernel.org) | 19:26 |
| JackWinter_ | yeah realtime is still a hobby and the companies that need it still run 2.6 on their embedded devices...:( | 19:27 |
| alex-EU-1 | AutoStatic: yep, got it, thanks | 19:27 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: Not sure how much longer we'll see RT kernel patches. | 19:27 |
| JackWinter_ | well that remains to be seen. i understand that tglx doesn't want to pay for it out of his own pocket when companies are making money off it and not contributing... | 19:30 |
| JackWinter_ | but i think redhat and others also pay some dev time. | 19:31 |
| JackWinter_ | but we'll see. in certain ways big parts of it could be dumped into mainline, but it would also mean that kernel hackers would have to follow more rules when creating new drivers | 19:32 |
| JackWinter_ | at the moment they rebase the patchset, and then fix the new breakage that has been added to mainline, which also is kind of sucky | 19:33 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: right, didn't know that. | 19:33 |
| JackWinter_ | well there is loads going on behind the curtains that we mere mortals don't know of | 19:34 |
| alex-EU-1 | JackWinter_: True. Back in a minute | 19:39 |
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| falktx | it's alive! https://i.imgur.com/HXibAda.png | 19:57 |
| alex-EU | falktx: congratulations. :) | 19:59 |
| falktx | it's not exactly my work | 19:59 |
| falktx | I just do the backend midi stuff | 19:59 |
| falktx | someone else will do the UI. I can't complain :) | 19:59 |
| alex-EU | falktx: then half each congrats. :) | 20:00 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter_: Somewhat of a miracle, but i have an RT kernel running, with one build. I thought it take me several. :) | 20:01 |
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| JackWinter_ | cool. it's really not all that difficult once you know how. have never understood the debian audio distro aversion to using an appropriate kernel :) | 20:19 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter_: neither have I. They seem to cringe every time someone mentions "realtime". | 20:21 |
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| JackWinter_ | i suspect it has to do with it's version not aligning with the kernel debian choses for a release. but as long as the kernel provides everything that userland needs, there really shouldn't be any problem | 20:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter_: Given the generally conservative nature of debian devs, maybe their test machines still run on steam.................. | 20:25 |
| JackWinter_ | :) think they also have a rolling release. i'd run that if i was running debian | 20:26 |
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| AutoStatic | kernels are hard to package and to maintain | 21:21 |
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| JackWinter_ | AutoStatic: why? | 21:35 |
| AutoStatic | Packaging conventions | 21:36 |
| AutoStatic | It is almost undoable to properly package a kernel | 21:37 |
| AutoStatic | I never even tried | 21:37 |
| AutoStatic | It's just so much work | 21:38 |
| JackWinter_ | well i don't remember how debian packages work, but i package 2 kernels for archlinux and i don't think it's very hard. | 21:38 |
| JackWinter_ | i'd say it's tedious though :) | 21:38 |
| JackWinter_ | but haven't had much work for the last few months :) | 21:39 |
| AutoStatic | Just wait until tglx gets itchy | 21:39 |
| AutoStatic | In Arch is it one PKG file? | 21:40 |
| JackWinter_ | yeah, well i'd like a 3.18-rt by now, but still 3.14 still works fine | 21:40 |
| JackWinter_ | more or less, there are some extra files, and patches, etc | 21:40 |
| JackWinter_ | AutoStatic: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/linux-rt/ | 21:41 |
| LAbot | Title: AUR (en) - linux-rt (at aur.archlinux.org) | 21:41 |
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| JackWinter_ | scroll down a little and you see the files | 21:41 |
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| JackWinter_ | oh well i think i'm off to bed. have a good one everyone! | 21:43 |
| AutoStatic | Goodnisght! | 21:45 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter_: G'night | 21:46 |
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