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| sfsafaws | Hi, is it possible to launch a plugin with Festige without the menu wrapper? | 14:12 |
|---|---|---|
| sfsafaws | I know Festige is somewhat obsolete now, but I require it for its bridging capabilities. | 14:13 |
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| holstein | sfsafaws: you want to launch a plugin, basically, from the command line? what plugin? | 15:33 |
| sfsafaws | I launch them through NON Session Manager. They're all Windows VST plugins, 64 or 32bit, for example Ohmicide if it matters. | 15:35 |
| * HarryHaaren loves ohmicide :) | 15:36 | |
| holstein | i think it does, but, i dont use much windows software in linux.. | 15:36 |
| holstein | i would think, you will need to just be happy with it working.. why are you trying to get rid of the "wrapper"? | 15:37 |
| sfsafaws | I borrowed the "final command" from Festige, I have the environment variables loaded, and NSM Proxy does the actual command loading | 15:37 |
| HarryHaaren | sfsafaws, there's a few different projects doing windows-VST wrapping to Linux using Wine / FST project etc | 15:37 |
| HarryHaaren | sfsafaws, ah ok, so what's the actual problem? | 15:37 |
| sfsafaws | There's no 'problem' per-se, because everything is running. | 15:37 |
| holstein | then, i would enjoy the software, since, its intended for a different operating system | 15:38 |
| HarryHaaren | bob marley sings: "be happy, don't worry" :D | 15:38 |
| sfsafaws | But the Festige GUI wrapper is annoying, it's slightly buggy and it's cumbersome on large-GUI plugins | 15:38 |
| holstein | yup.. "if it aint broke.." etc | 15:38 |
| HarryHaaren | so you don't want a GUI at all? | 15:38 |
| sfsafaws | I want the VST's GUI, I don't want Festige's GUI wrapper | 15:38 |
| sfsafaws | It has this menu at the top of the plugin window, for saving and loading states, etc. | 15:39 |
| HarryHaaren | but it shows the normal VST GUI, not horrible generated sliders for every value? | 15:39 |
| sfsafaws | Everything is working fine. | 15:40 |
| holstein | if all is working, i would just use it | 15:40 |
| holstein | i mean, you are guaranteed support for a *completely* different operating syste | 15:40 |
| holstein | system* | 15:40 |
| holstein | the fact that it works is a large hack | 15:41 |
| sfsafaws | The only graphical bug I experienced is when I move a window close to the edges of the screen, and then the wrapper doubles itself in size as if it's fullscreen | 15:41 |
| sfsafaws | Well I'm not complaining, just wondering if it's possible. | 15:41 |
| HarryHaaren | i don't know, i don't have experience with it sorry :) | 15:41 |
| holstein | *anything* is possible.. such as, the creators of the software making a native application and supporting it | 15:42 |
| holstein | if they dont, then, you can have compromises.. | 15:42 |
| HarryHaaren | sfsafaws, on another note, I am interested in what parts of Ohmicide you use / like most, as I develop linux-LV2 plugins, and I want to build some destroyer / audio-masher stuff soon | 15:42 |
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| sfsafaws | Sent a PM | 15:44 |
| sfsafaws | This is my problem: http://we.tl/n2iiXPJ413 | 15:47 |
| LAbot | Title: WeTransfer (at we.tl) | 15:47 |
| sfsafaws | As you can see, the bottom of the plugin is hidden, because the menu takes too much real estate | 15:47 |
| holstein | i would get a larger screen to faciliate larger resolution | 15:48 |
| holstein | thats a pretty common compromise to have to work around.. | 15:48 |
| holstein | i remember using alt-click to just drag elements around to get to the bottom of them when on smaller screens | 15:49 |
| sfsafaws | Since when is Linux about buying more expensive hardware instead of hacking workarounds? | 15:49 |
| holstein | sfsafaws: lol | 15:49 |
| holstein | sfsafaws: this is a windows application ;) | 15:49 |
| holstein | if it were "about linux" you could do what you like with it | 15:49 |
| holstein | i was suggesting a larger screen for the production work-flow, in general.. | 15:50 |
| sfsafaws | Yeah, the real bummer is that I tried Carla and it's much leaner. But it can't bridge yet. | 15:50 |
| holstein | but, you should ask the creators of the software to address your needs | 15:50 |
| holstein | release native/open code, and you can do with it what you like | 15:50 |
| sfsafaws | That would be ideal, and somewhat unlikely I believe. Won't hurt trying though I guess. | 15:51 |
| holstein | they are really the only entity that they allow to address the issue you are having | 15:51 |
| holstein | otherwise, you'll come up with a work-around, or accept compromise | 15:51 |
| sfsafaws | Regarding screen - This is all on a laptop for live shows. Can't carry a bigger screen on top of everything. | 15:51 |
| holstein | sure.. thats why, i just alt-drag things around on the screen when i was using a netbook simiarly | 15:52 |
| HarryHaaren | sfsafaws, i heard of people attempting to make Wine use a higher DPI / smaller text-size to make UIs bigger/smaller | 15:52 |
| HarryHaaren | its a long shot: VST's generally come hard-coded to a specific size :/ | 15:52 |
| holstein | the issue there is, most if not all production environments prefer, want, need, and facilitate larger screens | 15:52 |
| holstein | and, thats addressing the native workspace that the plugin is created for.. which is not linux | 15:53 |
| HarryHaaren | yep. A guy from OpenPandora wanted to run Luppp in 460 * something smaller: works :D http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=luppp | 15:53 |
| LAbot | Title: Luppp - Package Details - repo.openpandora.org Repository of Software for the Open Pandora open source console - Games | Apps | Emulators (at repo.openpandora.org) | 15:53 |
| sfsafaws | holstein: Sadly that's where good workflow practices and real life clash. | 15:54 |
| holstein | sure | 15:54 |
| sfsafaws | Carrying a laptop, an audio interface, two controllers, and anything in between is as much as I can carry. | 15:55 |
| holstein | great! | 15:55 |
| sfsafaws | And I have a huge sack. | 15:55 |
| HarryHaaren | sfsafaws, i'm also interested in what exactly you're live-performing.. perhaps email me? Cheers | 15:55 |
| holstein | then, maybe just alt click the window around , or look into zooming out, or setting a virtual resolution, or an application specific resolution from wine support.. etc | 15:55 |
| sfsafaws | If I had a truck I'd carry a 27" and a power server instead of a laptop | 15:56 |
| HarryHaaren | 27? Go 42" 4K screen :D | 15:56 |
| holstein | i mean, a larger screen on a laptop, or, a higher resolution would do... | 15:56 |
| sfsafaws | HarryHaaren: I'll talk about everything over email, IRC is too rushy | 15:57 |
| holstein | i understand.. i still track with a 9 inch netbook that has firewire.. in the field, thats what i track with | 15:57 |
| holstein | but, i dont mix on that machine.. for more reasons than the screen size | 15:57 |
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| sfsafaws | That's why I went Linux. I was using Ableton before. | 15:57 |
| holstein | for me to go to #ardour and say "when i try and use ardour on my 9 inch screen, its really challenging" would be met with, project intents, and larger work flow ideals | 15:58 |
| HarryHaaren | sfsafaws, cool thanks :) | 15:58 |
| sfsafaws | I'm setting up a real hacky system, and yet it's building up to be more stable and lighter than back on Ableton-windows | 15:58 |
| holstein | which is why, i just set the resolution larger, track, and accept the compromise | 15:58 |
| holstein | sfsafaws: if you want "stable", i suggest getting to native code as much as possible | 15:58 |
| sfsafaws | Of course. And still I'm already more stable :) | 15:59 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: Evening. Have you seen this wine error before? http://pastebin.com/wPjkyM | 18:39 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Is that some sort of thread scheduling problem? | 18:39 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Here's the whole error. http://pastebin.com/AQ53YpXB | 18:42 |
| JackWinter | never seen that, don't think it's a scheduling problem, looks like it has something to do with critical sections? | 18:45 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: Ok, thought i'd ask. | 18:52 |
| JackWinter | np, does it happen all the time, or just once? | 18:53 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: did it run out of memory? | 18:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: nope. | 18:59 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: it happens every now and then | 18:59 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Hard to pin down a regualr time or action i took. | 19:00 |
| JackWinter | i see some error about heap allocation, maybe ask in winehq? | 19:00 |
| JackWinter | i'm not very good at reading the backtraces though.. | 19:01 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I found an example on the wine debugger wiki that has a similar tone, related to sound. Juilliart says in response it means a critical section is released for use somewhere else, but it remains locked for some reason, hence the timeout error. | 19:03 |
| JackWinter | that's probably a programming error in kontakt.. | 19:04 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Which actually seems to make sense to me, even as a non coder. | 19:04 |
| JackWinter | or maybe a wine error | 19:04 |
| JackWinter | don't think it really ought to lead to a crash though, but who knows | 19:04 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: who knows. I'll keep testing, and see if it solidifies into a verifiable action or actions i can replicate. | 19:05 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: you gave a nice cli to run wine apps with, including "chroot". A question. Why a chroot, and why is this a better option than bog standard app startup? | 19:09 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Here's my K startup: WINE_RT=55 WINE_SRV_RT=65 chrt -f 53 wine /media/alex/sda1/.wine/drive_c/Program\ Files/Native\ Instruments/Kontakt\ 5/Kontakt\ 5.exe | 19:10 |
| JackWinter | not chroot, chrt | 19:11 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: right, so i don't understand at all then. | 19:11 |
| JackWinter | the idea is to get all or reaper realtime, i haven't seen any negative effects from doing, and seem to remember that the gui gets snappier and i wonder if it didn't help a little bit with xruns too | 19:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok, just dis a man chrt, and understand a little more. | 19:12 |
| JackWinter | like the chrt -f -p 53 appname, makes all of reaper run sched_fifo at prio 53 | 19:13 |
| JackWinter | think i have WINE_SRV_RT=70 nowdays | 19:13 |
| JackWinter | but maybe you can drop the chrt -f 53 from the above. who knows maybe it would even help with your recent issue... | 19:14 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'm about to try that. :) | 19:14 |
| JackWinter | i'd keep the environ vars though, but ofcourse you can try without them too | 19:15 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: keeping those at the moment | 19:16 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'm going to try running K without chrt -f 53, and reaper with. | 19:16 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: 2 different prefixes, obviously. :) | 19:18 |
| JackWinter | am pretty sure it helps reaper a little bit. what i'm not all that convinced about is the WINE_SRV_RT variable and it's value. but in theory it seems a sensible thing to do | 19:18 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll try without that too, and see what happens. | 19:18 |
| JackWinter | it means in practice that wineserver will always try to do it's work before the rest of wine runs (at least on a since cpu system, things get a bit more blurry on a SMP system | 19:20 |
| JackWinter | on a single cpu system | 19:20 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok. | 19:22 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep, K just crashed, but it was a jackass32 timeout reported in jack. | 19:23 |
| JackWinter | if you have jack at 80, then the callback thread will run at 75, so you might even try 76-79 for iy | 19:23 |
| JackWinter | it | 19:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I wonder if using jackass32 bridged in 64bit reaper is not helping. | 19:23 |
| JackWinter | that might indeed be counterproductive. is there no other way to get jack midi ports in wine? | 19:24 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll try the new values. | 19:24 |
| JackWinter | i don't think that will change anything, but possibly it would have an impact on xruns. i guess those aren't really a problem for you? | 19:25 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Not that i can find. I've tried several options. | 19:25 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I've got it tweaked to minmise xruns, and i usually only get those when i load and unload apps, and/or vsts | 19:25 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: During playback is no xruns, and i don't hear any artifacts. | 19:26 |
| JackWinter | i usually get them from starting stopping transport, and sometimes from loading new fx. and a huge one when i start reaper. otherwise i can pretty much do whatever i want with it | 19:26 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: more or less the same here. | 19:27 |
| JackWinter | seems like reaper/wine is sensitive to slow disks, i can't run bonnie++ on the audio disk without getting xruns, but neither can i with ardour. so i guess it's just a hardware limitation and i'd better get a big ssd for my audio files | 19:28 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: all ssds here. | 19:28 |
| JackWinter | but i might play with the disk io schedulers again to see if i can fix it. on the general principle that the harder i can push the machine under extreme conditions, the better it will work under more relaxed ones | 19:29 |
| JackWinter | i guess ardour is kind of the litmus test of linux audio? if reaper can work well under the same conditions as ardour, one can consider it working well? | 19:32 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: That's why i hammer everything. If it will still work reliably at 85-90%, then i set 50% (as an example) as default, and build all my templates, etc to that level. | 19:33 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'm not sure about that. Ardour with 128 midi tracks grinds to a halt, even on my i7. | 19:33 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Reaper runs fine with a shedload of vsts and over 250 tracks. | 19:34 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: And that's in Wine, not even it's coded comfort zone | 19:34 |
| JackWinter | hmm, is there something better for "Audio" on linux? | 19:34 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I once had non-timeline with 60 tracks running audio, it was a bit twitchy, but it didn't slow down or freeze up. I've yet to see anyone running 40 tracks in Ardour without problems. | 19:36 |
| JackWinter | do you if ardour has render ahead? reaper renders everything not live monitored in advance into a buffer, which of course gives it a huge advantage on many other DAWs, even though i think some others are beginning to do the same | 19:36 |
| JackWinter | do you know | 19:36 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I am out of date with ardour though. Haven't used it in anger for 3-4 years. | 19:36 |
| JackWinter | ah i see. | 19:36 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Hasn't ever been installed on this machine. | 19:37 |
| JackWinter | it really is kinda ironic if a win app in wine is the best performing linux daw... | 19:37 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: The midi is agricultural for my twilight zone use case............. | 19:38 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: in Ardour | 19:38 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Yep, i've noted that irony more than once. | 19:38 |
| JackWinter | but all in all i'm personally happy that it works, as it allowed me to finally get rid of windows. can't stand the windows echo system in general | 19:38 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: same here, which is why i test. Even as a hybrid wine/linux setup, it's ahead of everything else i did | 19:39 |
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| JackWinter | i track at high latency, and mix at quite low latency, and i really have no problems doing overdubs or anything monitoring through an amp sim or so. for me more than acceptable and i've had fun hacking on wineasio and playing around with realtime kernels and stuff | 19:40 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I for one certainly appreciate you doing wineasio. I'd probably be using windows now if not for mthat. | 19:41 |
| JackWinter | the only thing that gets my goat is that it's not perfect, but then again nothing really is.... | 19:41 |
| alex-EU | that | 19:41 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i'd like stable, however interesting debugging and testing may be. :) | 19:41 |
| JackWinter | a suggestion, buy 128gb of ram if you need to use more than 32gb on linux :) | 19:42 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: On multiple boxes. :) | 19:42 |
| JackWinter | it's kinda insane but that's the conclusion i've come to | 19:42 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: If i could get K to play nicely, i'd try multiple prefix/instances | 19:43 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: and use something like 50GB. That would cover me i think. | 19:43 |
| JackWinter | with 128gb, i imagine that you'd have no problem running a wineprefix with reaper and kontakt with 40-50gb of samples loaded | 19:43 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: that's true. | 19:43 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: reaper in wine gets a bit twitchy around 40-45 K vsts though. | 19:44 |
| JackWinter | no more messing around and finally a working system, but where would then fun in that be? ;) | 19:44 |
| JackWinter | cpu issues? | 19:44 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: a lot of fun. Start the box, and write music. :) | 19:44 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yes. Cpu gets into the 70-75% across all cores, and the GUI starts to slow. | 19:45 |
| JackWinter | what kinda cpu do you have? 4 cores or more? | 19:45 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i7 sandybridge. 4 cores without hyperthreading (which is what i use now) and 8 cores with HT. | 19:45 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: all ssd drives, and 64GB of ram. Should run a small city..... | 19:46 |
| JackWinter | yeah, the gui will yeild cpu to the audio processing. you could try to run X sched_fifo at an elevated priority too, have done that in the past with no obvious bad side effects | 19:46 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: How do i do that? | 19:47 |
| JackWinter | intel have new cpus with more cores :) | 19:47 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll wait. :) | 19:47 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Have to wear these out first. | 19:47 |
| JackWinter | chrt -f -p 51 `X` | 19:48 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: just in a terminal while X is running? | 19:48 |
| JackWinter | or maybe even higher. i guess you have to try for yourself and see if it helps or hurts | 19:48 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i've written it down for future hammering, erm i mean testing. | 19:49 |
| JackWinter | yes, and 51 is the priority, so you can try 1 or 99 instead, but it's up to you to see what works if at all | 19:49 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: what's the X default? | 19:49 |
| JackWinter | you can run that command for anything. i used it on an older machine when running reaper took a lot of cpu, and kde started to slowdown. i did it with kde=plasma too | 19:49 |
| JackWinter | made the kde gui very snappy :) | 19:50 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'm using plasma now. | 19:50 |
| JackWinter | then that and chrt -f -p 51 `plasma-desktop` will probably make the kde gui run better when the system is under pressure | 19:50 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: so something like "chrt -f -p `kde=plasma` ? | 19:50 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: should be a 51 in there as well. | 19:51 |
| JackWinter | plasma-desktop, just checked with ps | 19:51 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok, i'll test this. If i find a good setup, i guess i can bash script it for startup. | 19:51 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: get X and plasma going, then use it for reaper, etc | 19:52 |
| JackWinter | i've been called a lunatic and heretic for suggesting things like this in the past though :) | 19:52 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: You've seen what damage i inflict on Linux. We're in the same witness protection programme.......... :) | 19:53 |
| JackWinter | but in the end it's my system and ymmv as always | 19:53 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: "User not authorized to mess around with X and pid" | 19:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: sudo doesn't work either. | 19:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: failed to get pid 51's policy no such process" | 19:56 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll do some research on this. | 19:56 |
| JackWinter | that can be fixed by doing EDITOR=nano visudo and adding jack tor = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/chrt | 19:59 |
| JackWinter | where jack is the username and tor is the hostname | 19:59 |
| HarryHaaren | x audio, FLOSS music production and the LAC-2015 https://www.ubuntu-user.com/Magazine/Archive/2014/23/Harry-van-Haaren-open-source-musician | 20:00 |
| HarryHaaren | <LAbot> Title: Harry van Haaren, open source musician / 23 / 2014 / Archive / Magazine / Home - Ubuntu User (at www.ubuntu-user.c | 20:00 |
| LAbot | Title: Harry van Haaren, open source musician / 23 / 2014 / Archive / Magazine / Home - Ubuntu User (at www.ubuntu-user.com) | 20:00 |
| JackWinter | you also need to use the funny qoute, not the normal single quote | 20:00 |
| JackWinter | normally it's found close to the esc key. | 20:00 |
| JackWinter | might be that it's not shown properly in irc | 20:01 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok. | 20:01 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i'll try this later. I think the pid values aren't right. I'll run htop and get them from there. | 20:10 |
| JackWinter | HarryHaaren: nice article! congrats | 20:11 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: you did something wrong with the command, it's not pid 51, you are trying to set the pid of X to priority 51 | 20:12 |
| HarryHaaren | thanks JackWinter! There were a few sections on tools & setup that had to be cut out (unfortunatly) due to lenght: there was some ArchAudio and stuff in there. Next time :) | 20:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: right. | 20:12 |
| JackWinter | you can also get the pid of X someother way. | 20:12 |
| JackWinter | actually i think i cut and pasted something that's wrong :( | 20:13 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i copied yours. :) | 20:13 |
| JackWinter | let me see if i can get figure out the right command.... | 20:14 |
| JackWinter | try (sudo) chrt -f -p 51 `pidof Xorg.bin` | 20:17 |
| JackWinter | seems like my X has been renamed and is called Xorg.bin nowdays | 20:17 |
| JackWinter | if yours is X then just use that instead. | 20:18 |
| JackWinter | sorry for posting lies..! | 20:18 |
| JackWinter | am tired after the travel and kindain zombie mode right now | 20:18 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: that gave me this: pid 1005's current scheduling policy: SCHED_OTHER | 20:21 |
| JackWinter | is 1005 the pid of your X server? | 20:23 |
| JackWinter | it works on my system here in any case? | 20:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll keep experimenting. Thanks for the heads up. | 20:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: my be some extra debian alien tech i have to use. :) | 20:24 |
| JackWinter | what does echo `pidof Xorg.bin` give you? or whatever the X process is called on your system? | 20:26 |
| JackWinter | otherwise we'll try again some day soon, maybe i'll be a bit more awake :) | 20:27 |
| JackWinter | or just find the pid and do chrt -f -p 51 PID | 20:28 |
| JackWinter | or possibly sudo chrt -f -p 51 `pgrep Xorg.bin` | 20:31 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: this one seemed to work: chrt -f -p 51 PID | 20:34 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll set everything to 99, and watch the box glow. :) | 20:36 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep, X and plasma desktop now running at 52. | 20:37 |
| JackWinter | congrats, now i go eat | 20:39 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: cool, and thanks. I'll take every positive tweak i can get. | 20:39 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: and fewer xruns so far..... | 20:45 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: Do the pid changes carry across restarts? | 21:06 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: unfortunately yes :) | 21:22 |
| JackWinter | that's why it would be good to get pidof process or pgrep process working. like that you can put it in a startup script | 21:23 |
| distrozapper | 21:25 | |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok, thanks. | 21:27 |
| JackWinter | but if you can get echo `pidof process` or echo `pgrep process` to print out the pid, then that ought to be it. no idea why it's not working for you, but like i said i'm really tired, and think i'm turning in soon. | 21:28 |
| JackWinter | pgrep is probably better as it can handle the '/' in the threaded irq handlers name too | 21:30 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: It's working now. | 21:34 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Makes a difference to the desktop. | 21:34 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: and very few xruns. | 21:35 |
| JackWinter | strange, you mean to say that running X at a higher priority makes less xruns in reaper? that's kinda strange, will have to play with that. | 21:36 |
| JackWinter | stopped doing it when i got an i7 :) | 21:36 |
| JackWinter | but yes, it most certainly makes the desktop a lot snappier when the system is under heavy load | 21:36 |
| JackWinter | i found a daemon that allows one to memlock the memory used by certain programs too. very useful if the system starts swapping, like that getting around the system to the stuff you need to kill certain processes is easy, and no need to go get coffee while waiting for a terminal to start up :) | 21:41 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: defintely less xruns. I think setting reaper to a higher priority helps too. Just been experimenting with that. | 21:48 |
| JackWinter | i suspect that this would rather be the difference, and not the change to X | 21:48 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'm certainly putting the desktop under heavy load. | 21:48 |
| JackWinter | but running X like that has never been a problem on my systems, and have definitely made gfx snappier | 21:49 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: you may be right, but i've just tried a few other apps that are kludgy when they're hammered, and they seem to have improved as well. | 21:49 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: As long as it's a step forward, i don;t care if it's leather shoes or sandals. :) | 21:49 |
| JackWinter | i'd even take barefoot on coals if it makes my systems run better :) | 21:50 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: thanks for the help and info. I have a little more faith in a hybrid setup today. :) | 21:51 |
| JackWinter | yw :) | 21:51 |
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| JackWinter | an observation 2 mbps internet sucks a lot more than 30 mbps... | 21:52 |
| JackWinter | happy i'm not on a throttled 3g dialup though | 21:52 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i know, i'm using wifi in the mountains. Every time it snows i get down to 256kb! :) | 21:52 |
| JackWinter | oh then it gets really painful. in the summer i have a 3g dialup that i pay like 3 euros a day for. but after some megabytes it gets throttled to about 128-256 mbps, and then it's really a pain... | 21:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I think the EU should make it compulsory for every citizen to have gigabit fibre, no matter where they live. Then we're all happy. :) | 21:55 |
| JackWinter | i can browse the net if i'm patient, but forget downloading something or listening to music | 21:56 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: 1 Euro a month, unlimited. | 21:56 |
| JackWinter | that would be a good idea, and also be a boon for our economy..! | 21:56 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I shall ask the next time i'm in Brussels. :) | 21:57 |
| JackWinter | i don't have fibre though, think it's called vdsl | 21:57 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: right. | 21:57 |
| JackWinter | luxembourg has to find new ways to earn money now that the banking industry and internet sales vat seems to be drying up. but it appears that heavy investment in internet infrastructure is beginning to pay off in other areas now | 21:59 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: It's a no brainer for me. | 21:59 |
| JackWinter | same to me, but explain that to brussels | 21:59 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: All those unemployed people, as well as existing business get more opportunity to startup from home. (for example) | 22:00 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I wasn't kidding when i said 1 Euro a month. Treat it as a utility. | 22:00 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: At that level, it opens a lot of doors. | 22:01 |
| JackWinter | i've been toying with the idea to make a citizens proposition, that now that lux must give up it's banking secrecy, they should start with data secrecy. refuse all access to the five eyes etc. think alot of companies would move their data over to lux if that was the case :) | 22:01 |
| JackWinter | i'm down to paying about 30 euro a month for voip (telephone) and 30/10mbit internet. not too shabby, i can afford that | 22:02 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: They'd get hammered politically. I liike the idea, but the pressure would be immense, and relentless. They'd probably take an economic hit as well. (soft sanctions) | 22:02 |
| JackWinter | used to cost a bundle before | 22:03 |
| JackWinter | they get hammered in any case. personally i think it's somewhat of a morally corrupt country, but on the other hand how is a small country supposed to survive in the shadows of the big countries. and regarding lux leaks, most any country does the same if they get the chance... | 22:04 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: It costs enough here for what i get. Equivalent of 15 euros a month, and in the winter, for the reduced service due to conditions, i feel like i'm paying more than i should. | 22:04 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: The local isp certainly knows my name..... | 22:05 |
| JackWinter | lol, i've had my tiffs with them too | 22:05 |
| JackWinter | what is amazing is that i found out the other day that there is a mobile operator that sells anonymous sim cards, so if i pay attention to what i'm doing, i can actually go on the internet anonymously...! i thought that was forbidden all over the world by now | 22:07 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Audio as clear as a bell here. No xruns in the last 20 mins, not even for stop/start transport. | 22:07 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I think it is illegal here to sell SIMS without clear details of identity. | 22:07 |
| JackWinter | cool, we are approaching T minus 10 minutes :) | 22:07 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep. | 22:08 |
| JackWinter | i was suprised, i bought a prepaid card for 3g access, as i only need it a few times a year, and they didn't want to know who i am. of course i'd have to watch out with what kind of digital footprint i'd leave, imei (3g modem identification number) etc | 22:09 |
| JackWinter | not to mention location i'd use it from | 22:10 |
| JackWinter | but ok, there are cybercafees and free access wifi hotspots around too | 22:10 |
| JackWinter | still suprising | 22:11 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: It is, given the enthusiasm govs have for knowing when every citizen is breathing in and out. | 22:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I get a visit from the local "foreign police" from time to time, checking up on how i'm going, and what i'm doing. I'm fortunate it's 2 women, and they enjoy the drive up here to the countryside to get out of the office. They get a cup of tea and something to eat, so i guess the visits are a change from their usual routine in a positive sense. | 22:15 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Hehe, they're not supposed to let me know, but i usually get an sms letting me know they "may" be turning up on a given day and time. | 22:16 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: still no x-runs. counting down..... | 22:21 |
| JackWinter | cool | 22:22 |
| JackWinter | another idea, do you really need jack midi in wine, wouldn't some kinda of alsa midi loopback do? | 22:22 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep, that might work. | 22:22 |
| JackWinter | heh, they might be texting you to be sure that you have enough food prepared for them :) | 22:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: If i can route midi directly from reaper to K in wine, then i don't really need jack midi for that use case. | 22:23 |
| JackWinter | no, but then you have the problem of linux' vm system...:S | 22:24 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: They're definitely texting to ensure foods on the table. And the official questions are brief. Then they teach me Czech, and practise their english. It's a good arrangement, i guess. | 22:24 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I've tried virmidi for example, but that's still out of wine into linux, and back into wine. | 22:25 |
| JackWinter | but maybe if you start all the kontakt instances (since they are memlocked) just after restarting the system it might actually allow you to use your ram? | 22:25 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: And it doesn't work for me. | 22:25 |
| JackWinter | i haven't tried much midi, but i remember having many problems in wine too | 22:26 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I did that a short while ago. I started 4 instances of K as soon as the desktop came up. Are you talking before that? | 22:26 |
| JackWinter | no i guess after the desktop comes up, and the system hasn't had time to fill caches and allocate alot of virtual memory | 22:27 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I've left a note in the K forum asking if K 64bit has an arbitrary limit. | 22:27 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll try that again. But i still face the problem of getting midi back and forth. | 22:28 |
| JackWinter | i must admit i don't fully understand what goes on with linux' virtual memory system, but i also seem to be unable to use more than about 50% until i start running into swapping and OOM :S | 22:28 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Even 2 instances would be enough. I can run all the heavy stuff standalone, and use a couple of vsts for the lighter stuff in reaper. | 22:28 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I read a bit about linux VM and saw cache after our discussion. According to the info, linux will release that ram if another process wants it. That made what's happening even harder to understand. | 22:30 |
| alex-EU | saw=swap | 22:30 |
| JackWinter | yes it's supposed to, so i don't really understand wtf is wrong with my system. | 22:31 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: and mine, which means the things we have in common are wine, reaper, K, etc... | 22:31 |
| JackWinter | but no amount of tuning has really improved the situation for me, but i've talked to many others that think it sucks too, so... | 22:32 |
| JackWinter | yeah, but this happens to me without running reaper/wine too | 22:32 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: right. | 22:32 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: weird stuff. | 22:33 |
| JackWinter | once chromium has been up for a few days and leaked memory i have to kill chromium and restart it or my system goes to shit. the point it happens appears to be at about 50% free | 22:33 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'd be more concerned with Chromium gradually chewing more ram. Surely there's a problem there to begin with. | 22:34 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: More than once i've left reaper running, loaded with vsts, gone out for a while, come back, and it's where it was. | 22:34 |
| JackWinter | yeah, well that's another story :) | 22:34 |
| JackWinter | reaper normally won't leak ram, even though i'm not so sure it releases all the ram if you just open a new prj... | 22:35 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: We need more ram then. :) | 22:36 |
| JackWinter | could be wine too, or linux that keeps it around for wine as it's asked for it at some point | 22:36 |
| JackWinter | yeah, next upgrade will get 64mb here | 22:36 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: got an answer in the K forum. K can use all your ram if you want it to. | 22:37 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: So we're down to 2. | 22:37 |
| JackWinter | my money is on linux, but i still don't understand why... | 22:38 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: I've just asked in the wine forum. See what comes back. | 22:43 |
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| JackWinter | i don't think it's a coincidence that it happens at around to 50% mark for both of us. didn't you manage to load 40gb of samples the other day? | 22:44 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: with 2 prefixes, yes. | 22:44 |
| JackWinter | ah, then i misunderstood you. yeah i'd be expensive to get 128gb just to test my theory...:) | 22:45 |
| JackWinter | it'd | 22:45 |
| JackWinter | if the mainboard can even take it.. | 22:45 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: If i can get someone from wine to respond, i can ask further if there's some sort of process or socket limit. | 22:45 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: I wanted 128GB when i had this box built. Couldn't find a mobo to handle it. | 22:46 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: The fella in the shop, who's a friend of mine suggested a server setup, when i explained what i was doing. | 22:46 |
| JackWinter | i wonder what 128gb of ram with error correction would cost...:) | 22:48 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: indeed. | 22:49 |
| JackWinter | could you test the theory? take out one stick and see if you fail at 16gb used instead? | 22:52 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i don't really want to. This is my studio box. | 22:53 |
| JackWinter | sure that's understandable. have another box around? | 22:53 |
| JackWinter | am trying to get this laptop to break right now. i'm still a couple of 100mb short of the halfway point | 22:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok. | 22:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i have an admin box that has 4GB in it. I can try that tomorrow some time. | 22:54 |
| JackWinter | might be a good test, at least we'd know that it's not a 32gb limit, rather half the system ram | 22:56 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep, i was thinking that too. | 22:58 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: how's the laptop doing? | 22:58 |
| JackWinter | fuck netflix, i can't use it in spain even though i have a paid account in luxembourg... | 23:00 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: aah, the geo-masturbation. | 23:07 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: yes, :s | 23:08 |
| JackWinter | well it started swapping like mad once i passed the 50% point... been oomed and waiting for minutes to get control of my system back... | 23:09 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: If any one ever starts a european version that works across all EU countries, they'll clean up. | 23:09 |
| JackWinter | i just copied big files to /dev/shm | 23:09 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: right. | 23:09 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: and from what i just read, wine needs swap in linux. Some apps won't work without it. | 23:10 |
| JackWinter | this happend at about 3.8gb free,the system has 7.6 ram, on my main system it happens around the 8gb mark a 16gb system | 23:10 |
| JackWinter | well reaper has kept working, i'm still hearing the playback of the mix | 23:11 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I wonder if wine stalls at that because linux isn't quick enough to release the ram? | 23:11 |
| JackWinter | reaper is uing about 500mb (memlocked) | 23:11 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: If reaper's working, can you load more in there? | 23:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: or your laptop's frozen? | 23:12 |
| JackWinter | well i suppose, but not tonight. i suppose i could open more prj, since i don't have much samples installed on this machine | 23:12 |
| JackWinter | no, now it's ok again. some programs got oom:ed but not reaper | 23:13 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Which apps got oomed? | 23:13 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: non audio related? | 23:13 |
| JackWinter | some chromium instances are gone | 23:14 |
| JackWinter | don't know if there is a log of what got oomed | 23:14 |
| JackWinter | reaper appears to have survived well | 23:15 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I've copied a big prj i'm working on, and i'll keep adding until it stops. (Reaper with vsts) | 23:15 |
| JackWinter | dmesg tells me, chrome, chromium and various parts of systemd :) | 23:16 |
| JackWinter | suppose i'd better reboot the system soon. the journal (systemd's logging facility) also got oomed, very useful...:) | 23:17 |
| JackWinter | the journal got corrupted, systemd restarted the journal and the journal was then renamed and replaced. sounds like another really useful aspect of that piece of crap | 23:20 |
| JackWinter | it's like they are trying to turn my beloved linux into windows... but that's a rant for another day :) | 23:20 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Got to 30GB total with 28.5GB for reaper, and K crashed, taking down reaper as well. | 23:21 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep, as if systemd will bring on the "year of the linux desktop". :) | 23:22 |
| JackWinter | in any case the system went to shit when about half the ram was used. don't think i've tried anything special on this laptop to configure the vm system. | 23:22 |
| JackWinter | hopefully something good comes out of the devuan prj | 23:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'm going to look for info on this. I can't see the method in restricting 64bit to half of that. | 23:23 |
| JackWinter | it might have been the coredumps of crasing processes that did in the journal, as depending on how it's configured) it tried to stick the coredumps into it's journal too. another bright idea. suppose i'll go over the config tomorrow to see how this system is configured | 23:24 |
| JackWinter | no i find it really hard to believe that you can't use more than half your ram | 23:25 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: if you want to speed up testing copy 20-25gb into /dev/shm. that will eat your ram up just dandy...:) | 23:30 |
| JackWinter | ok, i think that's it from me for the night, need to crash now | 23:31 |
| JackWinter | need to shutdown the system too, as i don't want to cause any damage to it, and i managed to kill quite a lot of processes. suppose i'd better configure oom to just take out X or something when it needs to act...:) | 23:32 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: so see you around and i really hope your google-fu is better than mine :) | 23:33 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter_: adios, young Padawan.... :) | 23:35 |
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