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| rick_ | Do we no longer have kxstudio-kernel-lowlatency? | 01:18 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter_: Morning. Tested the ram this morning by pulling a stick out of the test box. Same result, half of the remaining ram got used. I haven't found much so far on changing this,but i did read a bit about linux vm, and know a little more about it. I'll keep trying. | 10:16 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: http://imgur.com/saliBQh | 11:06 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: That's htop and vmstat. Note the memory numbers in vmstat, and the size of the swapcache. | 11:07 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: That's as far as i can get with reaper loaded to the hilt | 11:07 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I got a low memory warning from K at this point. | 11:08 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: i get a 404 on that link | 11:13 |
| JackWinter | did you find out more about linux and ram usage? | 11:13 |
| JackWinter | i'm trying to get more free diskspace on my linux boot. amd moving about 70gb of drum samples to a windows drive instead. too bad that i only have drum samples and no kontakt samples with me. | 11:14 |
| JackWinter | i might try to copy some over my vpn, but with only a 2mbps connection that will probably take a while :) | 11:15 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: New link showing htop and vmstat. http://imgur.com/INqXNEp | 11:19 |
| LAbot | Title: snapshot3.png - Imgur (at imgur.com) | 11:19 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: This is reaper, and K standalone. | 11:21 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Note the mem and swapcache number in vmstat | 11:21 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: The swapcache will relinquish ram to other processes, in this case the standalone K. I started reaper first, and loaded it. | 11:22 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: But from this i can only assume that a single process, i.e. the reaper instance has a limit on how much ram it's allowed. | 11:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I have set 2 parameters in /etc/sysctl.conf. "vm.swappiness=1" and "vm.pagecache=10 20 30" | 11:25 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: The vm.pagecache is something i found on a site, that has 2 examples for pagecache, big and small basically. | 11:26 |
| JackWinter | i'm stil confused :) i think i really have to study up on this issue. i think there is no such limit on what a single process can use, at least i've never heard of it. am gonna make sure that i'm not using the wrong tools or tools that report the wrong thing to me, causing me to be confused about what actually is going on | 11:26 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Linux uses a dynamic swapcache to keep pages. As a process demands ram beyond what is free, linux gives up a portion of that swapcache. | 11:27 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: vmstat is useful for knowing how that is happening. :) | 11:28 |
| JackWinter | you can also try playing with this: vm.vfs_cache_pressure=500 | 11:29 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: If you look at the vmstat side of that pic, i keep refreshing it, and the last two show a difference in swapcache, as i demand more ram for the standalone K instance. | 11:29 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: What's that do? | 11:29 |
| JackWinter | yeah, i know the theory more or less, but i don't really see reality correspond with theory. but i'm gonna make sure that i'm not confused by something as this is really going on my nerves nowdays | 11:30 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i find this irritating too. Even more so now i'm armed with a little more knowledge. | 11:31 |
| JackWinter | http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bI9_gYTW79EJ:https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysctl/vm.txt%2Bvm.vfs_cache_pressure%3D500&gws_rd=cr&hl=es&&ct=clnk | 11:32 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok, i'll have a look | 11:32 |
| JackWinter | it makes the kernel more willing to give up the entries from the filesystem cache | 11:34 |
| JackWinter | google is so annoying with assuming that i want spanish google just because i travelled here... | 11:35 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yeah, i don't use google. | 11:36 |
| JackWinter | google.con/ncr normally solves that though | 11:36 |
| JackWinter | what do you use? google is getting more and more useless everyday | 11:36 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: duckduckgo | 11:36 |
| JackWinter | just loads of sites wanting to see you something when you look for info, and if you need to look something linux up, page after page of ubuntu noobs | 11:37 |
| JackWinter | i'll try that again, wasn't all that impressed with it either last time i tried, but maybe it's gotten better | 11:37 |
| JackWinter | what i really want is bolean search | 11:37 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: the problem seems to be, when we start reaper, and add vsts, as well as using mem, linux allocates pages to swapcache as well. (And now i understand why more than before) so for each GB of ram we take up in reaper, about half of that again is added to the swapcache. | 11:38 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: So 10GB of ram used by reaper equals a further 5GB of ram allocated to the swapcache. | 11:39 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Going on my 6 hours so far today of researching and testing. :) | 11:39 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: On my system, when the amount of free ram is down to about 3GB (according to vmstat) THEN the swapcache will start releasing ram to another process. | 11:40 |
| JackWinter | so 32gb of ram used by kontakt mean 48gb used up, that still ought to leave you another 16gb free? | 11:41 |
| JackWinter | so you still ought to have say what 10gb free? | 11:42 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: And if we seek to limit swapcache further to have more free ram, then we run the risk of continual page swapping to the HD. That may be ok for hdds, but the continual swapping won't exactly do much good for ssds. | 11:42 |
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| JackWinter | no that's true | 11:42 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yes i should have 10GB free. | 11:43 |
| JackWinter | and turning off swap isn't really a good solution for linux either :S | 11:43 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I tried that when i first got my new box. It slowed things down, and now i understand why. | 11:43 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Continual paging in and out. :) | 11:43 |
| JackWinter | so we are fucked or what? only solution is to buy more ram? | 11:44 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: seems that way. | 11:44 |
| JackWinter | but then i also don't understand that you can use more ram by using 2 wineprefixes... | 11:44 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: That's the other part i'm trying to figure out. | 11:45 |
| JackWinter | and why does it need to put half of what you use in a swapcache? that doesn't really make sense either... | 11:45 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: It may have to do with a limit per process, based on max sockets, etc. I've already increased the amount of per process openfiles i can have, but that didn't make a difference. | 11:45 |
| JackWinter | especially since all the samples used by kontakt are memlocked anyways... | 11:46 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: linux doesn't know K can memlock samples. | 11:46 |
| JackWinter | i ought to know that this memory is memlocked, as it knows not to swap it out... | 11:47 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i think linux just sees process, and paging, as "dumb" data to process. | 11:47 |
| JackWinter | s/i/the kernel/ | 11:47 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i feel your pain. :) The more i reasd about this this morning, the more frustrated i got. | 11:48 |
| JackWinter | to me something seems seriously fucked up. but what do all the big data companies do running server farms... surely they don't just conclude that linux is fucked and buy more ram? | 11:48 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I found a lot of info in sites for servers. | 11:49 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: So it may well be they have the same challenge. | 11:49 |
| JackWinter | but i know that many persons far more clever and informed by me, keep saying that the linux vm system is fubar | 11:50 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: There's also a lot i didn't understand, and i'm still working through that stuff trying to get my head around it. | 11:50 |
| JackWinter | s/by/than/ | 11:50 |
| JackWinter | ditto here | 11:50 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: If the superior intellects who know far more than i about this think the vm system is fubar, then i have little hope of getting around it. | 11:51 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'm thinking about a second studio box at the moment. Windows 64bit with lots of ram, to run K. | 11:52 |
| JackWinter | well, i'm gonna make an effort to understand it anyways | 11:52 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yes, me too. I've already learned a shedload today. | 11:52 |
| JackWinter | just get a windows box to run reaper/kontakt, and use another one for everything else :) | 11:52 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Sadly that's about all i use, reaper and kontakt. | 11:53 |
| JackWinter | don't know what problems you'll run into in windows though, nothing is ever easy... | 11:53 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i don't use the overwhelming electronica in linuxaudio. | 11:53 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Which is why i hesitate. Using a win box is just adding new problems. | 11:53 |
| JackWinter | no i mean, get a studio computer and don't connect it to the net. set it up and use that for making music. then another one for using the net | 11:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i already have that, but they're both linux. | 11:54 |
| JackWinter | like that you won't get bitten by anything nasty on the net either, as running windows on the net is a security nightmare | 11:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: And reaper runs really well here on wine/linux | 11:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Yep i hear you. | 11:54 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: decision making time coming up i think. | 11:55 |
| JackWinter | well then i foresee a 128gb ram system in your future :) | 11:55 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'd like 2 boxes with 128GB each. :) | 11:55 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: And 16core cpus | 11:55 |
| JackWinter | i have a friend who has a xp/cubase box for making music on. he set it up like 5 years ago and it still hasn't failed. he never connects to the net or install new things on it though | 11:56 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: He's lucky. | 11:57 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I had cubase on a daw box, and 5 gigastudio boxes running into it. A bloody nightmare. | 11:58 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Many years ago. :) | 11:58 |
| JackWinter | but try vm.vfs_cache_pressure=500 that might give you some relief, it did on my system | 11:58 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Objectively i do far more now with the current setup. | 11:58 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i will ,thanks for the heads up. | 11:59 |
| JackWinter | i'm swapping again, probably because i'm copy 70gb of samples over to another drive right now | 11:59 |
| JackWinter | but it's still not too bad. | 12:00 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: back in a minute. | 12:01 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: cache pressure is in. :) | 12:06 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Now we'll see what difference it makes. | 12:06 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: 44GB of used mem, 22GB of which is swapcache. | 12:08 |
| JackWinter | but does the swapcache actully consume the memory that vmstat reports, or is that just how much it references? | 12:08 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: It think it just takes it, "just in case". :) | 12:09 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: It sucks. | 12:10 |
| JackWinter | hmm, this looks like many hours/days of study needed :) just the kernel documentation on vm is a lot to digest | 12:11 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Thing is, we don't know how much is actually required for paging. If we set it to something like 5GB, then swapping may be continual, as linux assumes it can have as much as it wants. | 12:11 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I have a dim understanding of why paging is important for performance, but i don't understand the......greed. | 12:12 |
| JackWinter | suppose you could add a rust drive to the system to create a swap file on, you'll know once it starts swapping for sure | 12:12 |
| JackWinter | or rather swap partition | 12:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: If i thought a large flash drive would handle it, i'd try that. :) | 12:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: But then if it failed the system would crash, and who know what damage it would do. | 12:13 |
| JackWinter | supposedly one can use a swapfile instead of a partition too, that would allow monitoring it's size | 12:13 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I read a little about that this morning. | 12:14 |
| JackWinter | there is also supposedly compression of swap in recent kernels, but that wouldn't help with samples i guess | 12:14 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: But if you put the swapfile on a rust drive, you're limited to the speed of the drive for paging in and out. | 12:14 |
| JackWinter | yeah, well you don't want to swap at all... but atleast you won't damage your ssds playing around, and i can guarantee that you will notice the moment it starts swapping :) | 12:15 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: and it's only one part of the problem. Why do processes have a limit, i.e. reaper getting nervous at near half the ram? | 12:15 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: The second process proves nearly all the ram is available, why not all for a single process? | 12:16 |
| JackWinter | that i don't know. that is strange. you might try asking in #kernelnewbies on oftc.net, there are quite a few knowledgeable people there, and not much offtopic chatter | 12:17 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: And it's K which spits up a warning, not reaper. | 12:17 |
| JackWinter | though i guess most kernel hackers will not be working now, so away from computers | 12:17 |
| JackWinter | then maybe the swapcache is a red herring... and the actual problem is that a single process for some reason can't use more than half the ram | 12:18 |
| JackWinter | i suppose that K asks wine for ram and gets told go away. reaper won't really have anything to do with it | 12:18 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Which makes me think there's a per process limit of some sort. | 12:20 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Which is what i went after this morning. Founds loads of links for windows mem problems, but nothing related to process limits for win64bit. | 12:20 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: And still no answer to the Q in the wine forums\ | 12:21 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I went right through per user settings as well, thinking that was a possible cause. Got linux tweaked ok, but don't know how to do this in wine. (registry settings i assume) | 12:22 |
| JackWinter | don't know if your system uses cgroups, but maybe something there is configured to limit a process' ram usage | 12:23 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: do you use cgroups in arch? | 12:25 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: yes systemd uses some of it's features, not sure what parts though | 12:28 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: Another page of dev written cgroup text to get through....sigh...... | 12:34 |
| JackWinter | maybe this is a problem? vm.max_map_count | 12:38 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: maybe i have it, try sysctl vm.overcommit_memory=1 | 12:46 |
| JackWinter | it seems like that in order to protect the system, there is indeed some limitations on how much a single process can allocate | 12:46 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll try that. | 12:49 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: back in a sec. | 12:51 |
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| JackWinter | alex-EU: | 12:55 |
| JackWinter | The current overcommit limit and amount committed are viewable in | 12:55 |
| JackWinter | /proc/meminfo as CommitLimit and Committed_AS respectively. | 12:55 |
| JackWinter | also try to play with vm.overcommit_ratio | 12:56 |
| JackWinter | that appears to be set to 50% | 12:56 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok | 12:56 |
| JackWinter | would explain why you can't allocate more than 50% of your ram to a single process | 12:56 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: | 12:57 |
| alex-EU | CommitLimit: 36417176 kB | 12:57 |
| alex-EU | Committed_AS: 3248632 kB | 12:57 |
| JackWinter | not sure what options would be the right one for you. as setting vm.overcommit_memory to 1 didn't really seem to change anything in /proc/meminfo | 12:57 |
| JackWinter | try sudo sysctl vm.overcommit_ratio=90 | 12:58 |
| JackWinter | i don't think you need to reboot to change this... | 12:58 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok. It's done. :) | 13:00 |
| * JackWinter is holding his breath | 13:00 | |
| * alex-EU is doing the same.... | 13:01 | |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: hehe, it worked but for all processes. | 13:07 |
| JackWinter | how do you mean? | 13:08 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: so everything took more memory. :) | 13:08 |
| JackWinter | oops, how much more? you have another problem now? | 13:08 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I lost 22GB before i started reaper. :) | 13:08 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: swap, paging, etc... | 13:09 |
| JackWinter | hmm, what options did you change? | 13:09 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: so that setting for vm overcommit is system wide | 13:09 |
| JackWinter | maybe vm.overcommit_memory needs to be 0 | 13:09 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i used 90 as the parameter | 13:09 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: if overcommit equals zero, then surely that's the default | 13:10 |
| JackWinter | vm.overcommit_ratio=90 would mean that an app can commit up to 90% of the ram | 13:10 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll try it anyway | 13:10 |
| JackWinter | zero is default for vm.overcommit_memory on my system | 13:10 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: But that setting is system wide, meaning any app that would like more mem gets it. | 13:11 |
| JackWinter | there is also vm.overcommit_kbytes to set an absolute value | 13:11 |
| JackWinter | yes, well i can't produce miracles :) | 13:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok, i'll change it. | 13:12 |
| JackWinter | i guess we found the culprit though? | 13:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i know, we're in the realms of the unknown here.... | 13:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Yes, it's a start. :) | 13:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: would be nice if we could do something like vm.overcommit_ratio=90 wine | 13:13 |
| JackWinter | call linus :) | 13:13 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: specify a process. | 13:13 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: he won't answer, he's burning down nvidia HQ at the moment. | 13:14 |
| JackWinter | but i'm suprised that all processes used more ram... which of the 3 parms did you change, and to what? | 13:14 |
| JackWinter | yes, and lighting a fire under systemd devs :) | 13:15 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: | 13:15 |
| alex-EU | vm.swapiness=10 | 13:15 |
| alex-EU | vm.pagecache="10 20 30" | 13:15 |
| alex-EU | vm.vfs_cache_pressure=500 | 13:15 |
| alex-EU | vm.overcommit_memory=1 | 13:15 |
| alex-EU | vm.overcommit_ratio=90 | 13:15 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: which ones do you trhink i should keep? :) | 13:15 |
| JackWinter | try just vm.overcommit=0 and vm.overcommit_ration=90 | 13:15 |
| JackWinter | try just vm.overcommit=0 and vm.overcommit_ratio=90 | 13:16 |
| JackWinter | i think it's only the last 2 that are important for this, the others deal with the swapping | 13:16 |
| JackWinter | think i have vm.swappiness=1 and vm.vfs_cache_preassure=500 on my main machine | 13:17 |
| JackWinter | not that it helps all that much :S | 13:17 |
| JackWinter | so try vm.overcommit=0 and vm.overcommit_ratio=90 and reboot to see how the system comes up | 13:18 |
| JackWinter | or maybe just exit X/kdm and restart kde... | 13:19 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: back in a sec | 13:19 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: reaper loading now | 13:23 |
| * alex-EU is getting a quick litre of coffee....... | 13:24 | |
| * JackWinter goes for lunch | 13:28 | |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Nope, reaper crashed with an OOM heap fault. 29.7GB | 13:29 |
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| JackWinter | alex-EU: that with vm.overcommit=0 and vm.overcommit_ratio=90 ? | 14:01 |
| JackWinter | as a matter of interest, how big is your swap partition? | 14:01 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: unfortunately this is the kernel documentation: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/vm/overcommit-accounting | 14:04 |
| JackWinter | doesn't really explain very much does it? | 14:04 |
| JackWinter | red hat possibly does a little bit better: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Performance_Tuning_Guide/s-memory-captun.html | 14:07 |
| LAbot | Title: 5.4. Capacity Tuning (at access.redhat.com) | 14:07 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: i think you need to set vm.overcommit=2 in order to be able to use vm.overcommit_ratio or vm.overcommit_kbytes, but the amount of memory you can allocate depends on the amount of physical ram and swap that you have | 14:14 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep just reading that. | 14:16 |
| JackWinter | so maybe vm.overcommit=1 is the one to start with. i guess even if the system boots up using 20gb (which i find really strange), you'd still have 44gb for reaper/kontakt. | 14:16 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll change the overcommit and reboot. | 14:17 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: here goes..... | 14:21 |
| JackWinter | maybe vm.drop_caches can help at times as it apparently will force the system to drop caches | 14:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I've just been reading about a wine setting that is allegedly in loader/heap.c (Whatever and wherever that is) | 14:23 |
| JackWinter | how much ram did the system use when you booted this time? | 14:23 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: ^ | 14:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: 1GB | 14:23 |
| JackWinter | and how big is your swap? | 14:23 |
| alex-EU | :) | 14:23 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: 4GB | 14:23 |
| JackWinter | pff, 1gb that's nothing for you :) | 14:23 |
| JackWinter | hmm, maybe your problem also arises from having such a small swap? | 14:24 |
| JackWinter | i found this somewhere else: In mode 2 (available since Linux 2.6), the total virtual address space on the system is limited to (SS + RAM*(r/100)), where SS is the size of the swap space, and RAM is the size of the physical memory, and r is the contents of the file /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_ratio. | 14:25 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: swap's never used. The first time it was, was today, for 358kb when the system ram count was so high | 14:25 |
| JackWinter | in your case i guess that is about 36gb | 14:26 |
| JackWinter | if you set vm.overcommit=2 | 14:26 |
| JackWinter | and leave vm.overcommit_ratio at 50 | 14:26 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: same crash same GB limit. and this message: fixme:virtual:create_view out of memory in virtual heap for 0x7f0b351c0000-0x7f0b352c0000 | 14:30 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: any clues on the location of loader/heap.c? | 14:30 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll have a look anyway. | 14:31 |
| JackWinter | that i think would be in the wine source | 14:32 |
| JackWinter | hmm, this sucks :( | 14:32 |
| JackWinter | are you sure that vm.overcommit is 1 now? | 14:32 |
| JackWinter | nope i don't see any heap.c in wine/loader | 14:34 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yes, it's 1. | 14:39 |
| JackWinter | beh, then maybe set it to 2 and try with vm.overcommit_ratio=90 or something like that. | 14:41 |
| JackWinter | what an infuriating problem... | 14:43 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: actually before you change, what does /proc/meminfo say | 14:45 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: http://pastebin.com/nc7BRjGY | 14:49 |
| JackWinter | hmm, the CommitLimit is high now... | 14:50 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'm D/L the source now. | 14:52 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'll go looking for any mem stuff this week | 14:53 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: And you're right, this is infuriating. :) | 14:53 |
| JackWinter | hmm, i guess this is a limit that you might run into, but apparently not the only one... there must be something else stopping you | 14:57 |
| JackWinter | would be good to verify that it's not only wine that runs into it, as then you could dismiss wine (for the moment) | 14:58 |
| JackWinter | so to conclude: setting vm.overcommit=1 didn't really help, kontakt/wine was still unable to allocate ram just the errormsg changed? | 14:59 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep, that's it. | 14:59 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: i just had an idea. | 15:17 |
| * alex-EU has been using his 2 brain cells a great deal today..... | 15:17 | |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: What if it's linux's hold on all the ram that is stopping wine from going further? Why not set linux as having something like 10GB of ram, and see if wine gets the rest? | 15:18 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Is that feasible, or does wine rely on linux telling it how much mem is on the system? | 15:19 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: back in a min | 15:22 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: hehe, nope, that didn't work. | 15:30 |
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| hlblyhipy | morning newbie with a ? regarding sf2 files | 15:47 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: no i think to the kernel wine is just another process running | 15:47 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep, just found that out. | 15:47 |
| hlblyhipy | hey distrozapper thiskx is working great | 15:47 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: just reading up on cgroups again. | 15:48 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, welcome back again :) I am glad it works for you, falktx will be too ;) | 15:51 |
| hlblyhipy | ya have it running 256 48k and 2 periods not one xrun | 15:52 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, what is your question about sf2? | 15:52 |
| hlblyhipy | well when i was using US the sf2 to files were in /usr/share/sounds,but i cant find a folder there listed as sf2 | 15:53 |
| hlblyhipy | and have no idea how to use carla | 15:53 |
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| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, my (relatively fresh installed) KX 14.04.1 also doesn't come with sf2 soundfonts preinstalled. | 16:02 |
| hlblyhipy | ah so ill need to find the fluidsynth sf2 and download ha | 16:03 |
| hlblyhipy | makes sense thought i was missing something | 16:03 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, carla by default looks for sf2 in /usr/share/sounds and /home/<your username>/.sounds. | 16:04 |
| hlblyhipy | ya when i get the fils ill save them there correct | 16:05 |
| hlblyhipy | the .sounds means its a hidden file right | 16:05 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, you can point carla to search on custom paths by its "Configure carla -> Paths" tab. | 16:06 |
| hlblyhipy | but i would need to download the fluidsynth gm right | 16:07 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, means hidden file, correct | 16:07 |
| hlblyhipy | im new to midi too im a sting player guitar bass mando | 16:08 |
| hlblyhipy | so to open hidden files it's ctrl h right | 16:08 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, in GNOME it is ctrl+h, in KDE alt+. | 16:09 |
| hlblyhipy | oh im a dummy completely forgot im in kde now | 16:11 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, so you are on KDE now? | 16:12 |
| distrozapper | OK | 16:13 |
| hlblyhipy | glad u mentioned that,there is this bar that randomly pops up with a percentage,have no idea what the percent is | 16:13 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, maybe you mean the KDE notification in the "taskbar"? It informs about system messages and copy process advance mostly. | 16:16 |
| hlblyhipy | no this one pops up somewhere in the middle of the screen it pops up and few seconds later closes when i click on it nothing happens | 16:17 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, got no clue for that, would be fine if you could tell what this popup says | 16:20 |
| hlblyhipy | ya i was trying to take a screen shot but it happens too quick its this bar with i horizonyal line and a percentage if i can next time it pops up ill try to captur it | 16:22 |
| hlblyhipy | isee a learning curve to kde im only used to xfce | 16:23 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, I just installed fluid-soundfont-gm too, there should be a /usr/share/sounds/sf2 present now, ready to be found by carla. | 16:23 |
| hlblyhipy | did you find that download on sourceforge | 16:24 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, no, it should be available via synaptic (or your preferred software manager) | 16:25 |
| hlblyhipy | ah ok im still usign synaptic,too lazy to learn muon lol | 16:26 |
| hlblyhipy | in US i was using Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra which has alot of nice sounds,but I have a feeling you already are aware of that | 16:30 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, yes I got the sonatina suite too, which is indeed quite nice :) | 16:34 |
| hlblyhipy | once again you've helped me out got my sf2 thanx man | 16:34 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, you are welcome :) | 16:35 |
| hlblyhipy | now in US i just extrated the files to /usr/share/sound,i do it the same way in kde right? | 16:35 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, to copy something to /usr/lshare/sounds/sf2 you need root rights. You could also expand the sf2 files to some convenient place in your home folder and point carla to that place. | 16:38 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, A general recommendation: Avoid using root access whenever possible! | 16:39 |
| hlblyhipy | you mean sudo right | 16:40 |
| hlblyhipy | ya i just created a folder labeled sounds that i will put the files in | 16:40 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, good :) | 16:41 |
| hlblyhipy | ive been noticing in linux there is no line between developer and user as there is in windows | 16:43 |
| hlblyhipy | hate windows thats why i switched,wish i knew about linux years ago | 16:43 |
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| hlblyhipy | when you say root you mean the use of sudo | 16:45 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, yes, root access means using "sudo.." in ubuntu. | 16:47 |
| hlblyhipy | ive been reading an ebook call the command line which is a huge help but im only at the point of copying and moving files,seraching simple beginner stuff | 16:49 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, welcome to the opensource world. Everybody can contribute ideas/error amendments/support. | 16:49 |
| hlblyhipy | i knew there would be a learning curve just didnt realize how big of one there is | 16:49 |
| hlblyhipy | oh ya im lovin every minute of it | 16:50 |
| hlblyhipy | now ive noticed in dolphin the is i folder listed as root | 16:51 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, Yes the learning curve is there. But maybe you can remember how long it took you to gather experience with windows? | 16:51 |
| hlblyhipy | ya and this is much more entertaining,gives a little more control to the user,still its kinda scary to realize one wrong keystroke and your system is gone lol | 16:53 |
| distrozapper | hlblyhipy, Exactly that's one of the most important differences. You can be "god" on your own system, but you have to know a bit of what you do. | 16:56 |
| hlblyhipy | YA ive made a few huge blunders but it's the best way to learn | 16:57 |
| * distrozapper is away 10 min | 16:59 | |
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| hlblyhipy | distrozapper,as always thanx for your knowledge and patience,have a great holiday peace | 17:18 |
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| distrozapper | JackWinter, alex-EU : Thanks for your RAM access discussion, I followed it having a deeper insight to the system thanks to you. Please hold on :) | 17:30 |
| JackWinter | distrozapper: i'm happy that someone is enlightened, because i'm lost myself :) | 17:36 |
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| distrozapper | JackWinter, alex-EU : Thanks anyway. Due to your discussion I got some more "screws to turn" when running win apps with WINE, thanks a lot :) | 18:03 |
| distrozapper | alex-EU, : [OT] Just curious: Most hardware I know of and is capable of more than 128 GB RAM ECC is not quite designed for living rooms or audio studios. What system hardware are you running atm ? | 18:16 |
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| alex-EU | distrozapper: i7 sandybridge with 64GB of ram, and 3 SSD drives. Audio card is RMO I/O pcie, and yamaha hs80M monitors. My midi keyboard is an AKAI mpk88. | 18:45 |
| alex-EU | distrozapper: and yw. Hopefully tracking down these challenges will make life a bit easier for all of us. | 18:46 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: just been reading a bit about cgroups over dinner (as one does). I wonder if we could cooerce reaper and K with that. | 18:48 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: i don't think they can give you anything that you don't have, rather they can just restrict what you get? but i've ignored them so far as they haven't caused me any problems that i know of | 18:50 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: yep, understand that. But will a cgroup, for example, tell K it has 40GB of ram to work with? | 18:51 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: I'm just absorbing this stuff now, so i could have completely the wrong end of the stick. | 18:51 |
| * falktx is updated eq10q | 18:53 | |
| falktx | 2 patches already... | 19:00 |
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| distrozapper | alex-EU: Thanks for info, I only got an i7lspci | 19:16 |
| falktx | 4 patches were needed for eq10q | 19:17 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Does wine see ram directly, or does it get "told" parameters linux give it? | 19:18 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: don't think so, but i think you could use cgroups to limit the ram, cpu run time, etc | 19:18 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: ok, understand that. | 19:18 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: afaik, reaper allocates ram like in windows, and wine makes linux system calls to actually get it | 19:18 |
| JackWinter | so to the kernel it's just another process trying to allocate memory | 19:19 |
| JackWinter | my hair started hurting, so i've drifter into trying to get my gamepad work in steam, which is a nice waste of time as i never really play games :) | 19:20 |
| distrozapper | alex-EU, i7 Q740 1.7GHz 8GB RAM notebook here, so for sure I cannot replay your situation. | 19:20 |
| JackWinter | yeah, i'm on a haswell laptop with 8gb too, so not much i can do either | 19:21 |
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| falktx | 5 patches now. and UI crashes on init :( | 19:24 |
| spectromas | shouldn't they fix that upstream falktx? | 19:26 |
| falktx | they should yes | 19:26 |
| falktx | I'll send all the patches when I'm done | 19:26 |
| spectromas | why did they release it if it needs so much? | 19:26 |
| falktx | tbh most issues were already there | 19:27 |
| falktx | e10q is not a stable plugin, it's beta6 | 19:27 |
| falktx | ah, so it's not carla, also crashes on jalv.gtk | 19:29 |
| falktx | crashes ardour3 too | 19:30 |
| falktx | wtf, did he even tested this... | 19:30 |
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| spectromas | haha | 19:33 |
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| * falktx wonders how the pics in http://libremusicproduction.com/news/20141220-eq10q-v2-beta6-now-available were possible | 19:35 | |
| LAbot | Title: EQ10Q V2 Beta6 is now available | Libre Music Production (at libremusicproduction.com) | 19:36 |
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| alex-EU | bah. That didn't work either. | 19:45 |
| alex-EU | i blame the kardashians...... | 19:45 |
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| JackWinter | i saw something about a guy getting plastic surgery to look like kim. he looked even more horrible than her :) | 20:05 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: ergh. | 20:08 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: i hope for his sake that it's a spoof and not the truth... http://www.cambio.com/2014/12/20/this-man-spent-150-000-on-plastic-surgery-to-look-like-kim-kardashian/ | 20:09 |
| LAbot | Title: This Man Spent $150,000 on Plastic Surgery to Look Like Kim Kardashian | Cambio (at www.cambio.com) | 20:09 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: i'm not looking at that, i just had dinner. | 20:11 |
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| hlblyhipy | new ? new problem | 20:14 |
| hlblyhipy | forget found the problem...me | 20:15 |
| JackWinter | yeah, better keep your dinner on the inside :) | 20:18 |
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| falktx | patches! https://sourceforge.net/p/eq10q/patches/ | 22:01 |
| LAbot | Title: EQ10Q / Patches (at sourceforge.net) | 22:01 |
| falktx | bbl | 22:01 |
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| alex-EU | ok, enough. :) I won't find a solution today. | 22:27 |
| JackWinter | alex-EU: beh, no progress? | 22:30 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: nope, but i have learnt a bit. | 22:46 |
| alex-EU | HarryHaaren: Evening, help us out here please. :) | 22:46 |
| HarryHaaren | hey alex-EU whaszuuuzp? | 22:46 |
| * HarryHaaren just joined, no backlog :) | 22:47 | |
| alex-EU | HarryHaaren: We want to utilize more than 30GB of ram in wine64bit. | 22:47 |
| alex-EU | HarryHaaren: You may well be grateful for no backlog. :) | 22:47 |
| alex-EU | HarryHaaren: per process. | 22:47 |
| HarryHaaren | right... Im afraid I don't even have wine installed here. | 22:48 |
| HarryHaaren | yeah, kontact on your studio machine, i've seen some discussion here / other-#rooms :) | 22:48 |
| alex-EU | HarryHaaren: hehe, i'm just kidding. We've been at this most of the day. | 22:48 |
| HarryHaaren | sure, what's the current problem? | 22:48 |
| * HarryHaaren was trying to make Googles ChromeCast use a different DNS thank Googles 8.8.8.8 or 4.4.4.4... that's fun too if this turns out too easy ;) | 22:49 | |
| alex-EU | HarryHaaren: wine won't allow us to utilize more than almost half of the ram installed. I have 64GB, and K stalls on 29, with a memory heap error. More or less the same with reaper, loaded with vsts. | 22:50 |
| alex-EU | HarryHaaren: If i run reaper in one wine prefix, and a standalone instance of K in another wine prefix, i can get near 50GB. Problem is there's no reliable way to route midi between them, in 64bit. | 22:51 |
| HarryHaaren | alex-EU, perhaps talk to the DrumGizmo guys? #drumgizmo. I have no experience at all with such file-sizes / wine / windows VSTs. They do with the file-sizes anyway... and DG runs on Win too IIRC? | 22:51 |
| alex-EU | HarryHaaren: ok, sounds like an idea. Thanks. :) | 22:52 |
| alex-EU | HarryHaaren: We've already used up all our ideas, sensible or otherwise..... | 22:52 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: I've just joined the winehq channel. Thay'll either answer me, tell me i've insulted them with a 64bit question, or ban me for life. :) | 23:03 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: It's rougher in there than #lad. | 23:04 |
| JackWinter | i don't think ulimit is involved at all, but what do i know :) | 23:06 |
| JackWinter | i missed the heads of the discussion though | 23:06 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: we'll see | 23:08 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: Trying that now......... | 23:08 |
| JackWinter | what was the advice? | 23:08 |
| HarryHaaren | hey alex-EU yeha the channel can be quiet at times | 23:10 |
| HarryHaaren | generally deva (one of the devs) falktx and some others hang there | 23:11 |
| * HarryHaaren back from a little chat | 23:11 | |
| HarryHaaren | sorry I can't help alex-EU its totally unknown territory for me. Perhaps a post to LAD mailing? Try get some knowledge / experience from there? | 23:12 |
| HarryHaaren | I have 2 GB ram.. i don't experience these issues. I also can't use DrumGizmo, cause thier smallest kit makes my system swap-storm :/ | 23:12 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: He suggested running ulimit first in the terminal reaper will be started from\ | 23:13 |
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| JackWinter | alex-EU: to achieve what? | 23:17 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: greater ram usage i assume. | 23:19 |
| alex-EU | JackWinter: didn't work. | 23:19 |
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| alex-EU | JackWinter: time to crash, nite, and thanks for the input. The day has been........relentless. :) | 23:29 |
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