Wednesday, 2015-01-14

*** ChaosFan_ has joined #kxstudio00:06
*** wolftune has quit IRC00:08
*** ChaosFan has quit IRC00:09
*** ahellquist has quit IRC00:09
*** cobra_ has quit IRC00:11
*** ahellquist has joined #kxstudio00:11
*** wolftune has joined #kxstudio00:12
*** LAbot has joined #kxstudio00:33
*** wolftune has quit IRC00:48
*** wolftune has joined #kxstudio01:08
*** LAbot has joined #kxstudio01:35
*** orngjce223 has quit IRC02:11
*** orngjce223 has joined #kxstudio02:24
*** dtcrshr has quit IRC02:48
*** spectromas has joined #kxstudio02:49
*** BitPuffin has quit IRC03:02
*** dtcrshr has joined #kxstudio03:05
*** seanz has quit IRC03:45
*** seanz has joined #kxstudio03:52
*** seanz has quit IRC04:44
*** seanz has joined #kxstudio04:44
*** seanz has quit IRC05:04
*** seanz has joined #kxstudio05:07
*** spectromas has quit IRC05:16
*** active8 has quit IRC06:04
*** wolftune has quit IRC06:32
*** seanz has quit IRC06:42
*** seanz has joined #kxstudio06:44
*** seanz has quit IRC07:39
*** seanz has joined #kxstudio07:42
*** JackWinter1 has joined #kxstudio08:06
*** falktx has joined #kxstudio08:39
*** yann-kaelig has joined #kxstudio08:58
*** EamonnTobin has joined #kxstudio09:16
falktxwow, I had no idea carla was so popular09:35
falktxhttp://libremusicproduction.com/news/20150113-end-year-survey-results-201409:35
LAbotTitle: End of year survey results - 2014 | Libre Music Production (at libremusicproduction.com)09:35
*** falktx has quit IRC09:42
*** falktx has joined #kxstudio09:47
JackWinter1falktx: congrats!  is nice to know that someone cares about the work one does, it's kind of discouraging to work on foss and think that no one uses it09:49
ChaosFan_falktx: congrats!09:52
ChaosFan_i can relate to the "midi sequencers are lacking", but off the top of my head I wouldn't know what kind of virtual instrument is lacking (which may be related to my fetish for hardware synths... ;) )09:53
* falktx has a new midi sequencer coming up sometime "soon"09:56
falktxsynths in general are lacking09:56
falktxstuff like sylenth, nexus, etc09:56
ChaosFan_falktx: new midi sequencer? that you wrote? already sounds usable ;)09:57
falktxwe have tal-noisemaker and zynaddsubfx, plus loomer and u-he stuff09:57
ChaosFan_zyn alone can do almost anything09:57
ChaosFan_imho09:57
ChaosFan_but as I said, I have a fetish for hardware synths, so I don't look around too much regarding virtual synths09:58
ChaosFan_falktx: what are you planning for that midi sequencer? pattern-based like non-sequencer or... what's it called? "time-based" like the midi functionality in ardour? or tracker style? or..? ;)09:59
falktxChaosFan_: it's a fork of a fork10:00
falktxold screenshot - http://i.imgur.com/qsDfTH5.png10:01
*** seanz has quit IRC10:01
ChaosFan_looks somewhat confusing at first sight...10:02
falktxstill unfinished10:03
falktxand I don't have much time for it10:03
falktxcarla needs to be working stable first10:03
*** seanz has joined #kxstudio10:03
ChaosFan_ah that's two instances of the sequencer, a carla instance and the zyn gui visible10:03
falktx1 sequencer instance10:05
falktxand 1 carla10:05
ChaosFan_oh?10:05
falktxthe window below is the piano roll10:05
ChaosFan_of the midi track "sequenced by Milgren" - ah10:06
falktxcarla is loading zyn10:06
ChaosFan_does it have to be multi-window or is it possible to have that in a single window?10:06
ChaosFan_just out of curiosity10:06
falktxyou mean editing midi inline?10:09
falktxI don't want that10:09
ChaosFan_ok10:10
falktxardour and tracktion do that, I really don't like it10:11
ChaosFan_that's alright.10:13
ChaosFan_I personally prefer one-window solutions as I really like tiling window managers. with multiple windows open, the rearrangement triggered by those "temporary" windows sometimes looks awkward10:14
*** seanz has quit IRC10:16
*** seanz has joined #kxstudio10:18
*** JackWinter1 has quit IRC10:57
*** samamuse has joined #kxstudio11:01
*** samamuse has quit IRC11:01
*** Animtim__ has quit IRC12:17
*** yann-kaelig has quit IRC13:12
*** falktx has quit IRC13:22
*** JackWinter1 has joined #kxstudio13:34
*** JackWinter1 has quit IRC13:35
*** spectromas has joined #kxstudio13:42
*** falktx has joined #kxstudio13:49
*** triune has quit IRC14:03
*** spectromas has quit IRC14:04
*** spectromas has joined #kxstudio14:05
*** lfzawacki has joined #kxstudio14:35
*** alex-EU has joined #kxstudio14:36
*** triune has joined #kxstudio14:41
*** triune has quit IRC14:46
*** triune has joined #kxstudio14:47
*** triune has quit IRC14:49
*** triune has joined #kxstudio14:52
*** BitPuffin has joined #kxstudio15:12
*** JohnnyL has joined #kxstudio15:16
*** ariev3 has joined #kxstudio15:52
ariev3hello ?15:52
ariev3I have an issue with ardour3 on kxstudio 14.04 x86_6415:53
ariev3I didn't have this issue on kxstudio 12.04 with ardour315:54
ariev3I have described it on https://community.ardour.org/node/858715:54
*** jablo has joined #kxstudio16:11
*** spectromas has quit IRC16:11
*** falktx has quit IRC16:14
*** Griffinstein has joined #kxstudio16:20
Griffinsteinomg lmms is a direct clone and more of fl studio i love it16:21
Griffinsteinghost notes was the only thing i needed and i got them on lmms16:21
*** Griffinstein has quit IRC16:27
*** jablo has quit IRC16:30
*** jablo has joined #kxstudio16:30
*** falktx has joined #kxstudio17:01
*** zth has joined #kxstudio17:03
*** wolftune has joined #kxstudio17:06
alex-EUfalktx: evening, a question. Is there any sort of midi learn function for carla plugins?17:22
falktxno17:22
alex-EUfalktx: ok.17:23
falktxthere's midi-cc automation, but no midi-learn17:23
falktxthis needs the global midi-input port first17:23
alex-EUfalktx: right.17:23
alex-EUfalktx: i'm working with the metro plugin at the moment, and there's no way to kill the volume during playback, hence my question. I could assign a switch on my midi controller for this task.17:24
falktxyou can use the volume CC17:24
alex-EUfalktx: Sorry, no way to kill the volume automatically.17:24
falktxsend volume-CC, value 0, with the channel that matches the "midi control channel" setting17:25
alex-EUfalktx: yep, aware of that.17:25
alex-EUfalktx: i've sortof been doing that so far.17:26
alex-EUfalktx: problem is, i can't define a CC, only a port.17:27
alex-EUfalktx: i'd like to use a specific cc allocated to my switch, a simple on/off. (Switch on =127, switch off = 0)17:28
alex-EUfalktx: anyway, i've asked. Moving on....17:29
falktxthere are probably midi plugins that can do that17:30
alex-EUfalktx: looking now.....17:30
alex-EUfalktx: sorted out, thanks for the tip.17:35
JackWinteralex-EU: i have some exciting news.  i found something called wine-staging and i was running those patches + wine-rt.  just had reaper running a full mix at 64 samples buffer with a rec armed tracked through an ampsim for 20 hours, not a single xrun.  i get the impression that there is some patch in winestaging that really help.  speculation is that it might be a patch that speeds up disk i/o quite substantially17:37
JackWintermaybe this one: https://github.com/wine-compholio/wine-staging/tree/master/patches/ntdll-FD_Cache17:38
alex-EUJackWinter: sounds good.17:38
JackWinterif it really speeds up disk i/o or provides better caching, then it might be good for your kontakt needs too17:39
alex-EUJackWinter: i have ssds here. I wonder if it will help them too.17:39
alex-EUJackWinter: indeed.17:39
JackWinterdunno, i have rust still :)17:39
JackWinteri do keep my audio files on a separate disk though17:39
alex-EUJackWinter: aaah, WD-40 computing. The good old days. :)17:39
alex-EUJackWinter: how do i apply the patch to the kxstudio wine-rt deb?17:40
JackWinter:)  i looked today and i have about 2TB of audio recordings, but i suppose i could buy a ssd and only keep what i'm presently working on, on it17:40
alex-EUJackWinter: Never mind. That's a silly question, you're on arch.17:40
JackWinteralex-EU: the patch command :)17:41
JackWinteri guess there is a wine-rt source package somewhere.  ask falktx for it, and just add the patch or maybe all of them and rebuild17:41
alex-EUJackWinter: Yeah, i tried patching a kernel once, ended up being logged in the lesbian society annual calendar files.17:42
falktxJackWinter: afaik most of wine-staging patches need something else to work properly17:42
falktxhm, not that one though17:43
alex-EUfalktx: worth trying with your wine-rt package?17:45
falktxI guess17:45
alex-EUfalktx: you know i'll test it for you. :)17:46
alex-EUJackWinter: Well spotted, and thanks.17:46
JackWinteralex-EU: don't know if it's that patch.  this is the buildscript i used for arch, is the whole shebang: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/wi/wine-silverlight/PKGBUILD17:50
alex-EUJackWinter: Good timing too. The reaper linux naysayers have been out in force again. Will be good if this works, and i can use LOS more often instead. (Thinking into the future here.)17:50
JackWinterstupid bigots.  was the same crap when people asked for an osx version.  imo it's up to the cockos devs to decide what to work on, and not the forum users...17:51
JackWinterthough i added the wine-rt patch to the above buildscript17:52
JackWinterentitled brats...  and what have they payed for the privilege of running reaper, $60 or maybe nothing at all17:53
alex-EUJackWinter: indeed.17:53
JackWinterbut twats all around.  many linux users are no better :)17:53
alex-EUJackWinter: True.17:53
alex-EUJackWinter: Will be good if this works. I've got latency set loose, because the read from K/wine is too slow, and i get crackles. (I'm shoving a lot more through it i guess)17:55
JackWinternow i need to test the new betas.  am curious how well the new VCA functionality is gonna work.  have been waiting for 5 years or so for it17:55
alex-EUJackWinter: Which means my keyboard is delayed input.17:55
alex-EUJackWinter: VCA looks interesting. No doubt it will be done the "reaper" way.17:56
alex-EUJackWinter: minimal functions, and a stack of scripts. :)17:56
JackWinterin the test, i also upped the media buffer to 2400ms and the render ahead to 400ms.  but don't know which of them was helpful yet.  think it might be good for playback to up the render ahead, and the only drawback is really that changing a fader or fx and hearing the change takes longer17:58
alex-EUJackWinter: right. I'm not streaming audio from inside reaper though. I just use it for midi, and ported out to carla.17:59
alex-EUJackWinter: You know that plugins inside carla run as separate processes? Falk told me. As soon as the osc stuff is gone, i'm going to give the RAM test another run.18:01
alex-EUJackWinter: i have half the plugins running from one prefix, and the rest on another.18:02
alex-EUJackWinter: So RAM may become a non isuue as well.18:02
falktxerrm, the prefix doesn't matter18:16
falktxit's the process separation that does18:16
falktxJackWinter: can reaper 64bit load 32bit plugins?18:16
*** lfzawacki has left #kxstudio18:17
falktxit would mean they have plugin-bridges in place18:17
alex-EUfalktx: right. I was only remarking on the prefixes, based on my testing with K standalone instances.18:18
alex-EUfalktx: and reaper with vsts.18:19
falktxthat would be because you're running 2 reaper instances18:20
falktxdoesn't matter the prefix18:20
falktxanyway, brb18:21
*** falktx has quit IRC18:26
*** falktx has joined #kxstudio18:35
JackWinterfalktx: yes, it has a builtin bridge18:57
falktxJackWinter: is it possible to force regular "native" plugins to use that bridge?18:57
JackWinterhow do you mean?18:57
falktxrenoise can run all plugins as bridges18:57
JackWinterrun 64b plugins in a separate process?18:57
falktxyes18:58
falktxif yes, then the issue alex-EU had with wine + too much memory can be worked around18:58
falktxby using several K instances (separate processes, bridged) instead of a single big one18:58
JackWinteryes, it's in prefs->plugins->compatibility->vst bridging/firewalling18:59
JackWinterthat's a good idea, why didn't i think about that...18:59
JackWinterthis is cool, i've never run such a big project as such small latency before19:00
alex-EUJackWinter: falktx: I tried the separate process bridge setting in Reaper. Never worked for me.19:15
alex-EUJackWinter: Good to hear you're having success. :)19:18
*** lfzawacki has joined #kxstudio19:18
*** spectromas has joined #kxstudio19:20
*** JohnnyL has quit IRC19:21
JackWinteralex-EU: how did it break?  as like that it ought to run in it's own process but with the same wineserver.  but i guess most likely the wineserver is the process responsible for allocating ram, but i'd have to look in the source to check that19:24
*** Animtim_laptop has joined #kxstudio19:27
*** lfzawacki has quit IRC19:27
alex-EUJackWinter: The same as a single K instance. got to around 28GB-29GB, and same errors, and crash.19:28
alex-EUJackWinter: All VSTs of course.19:28
falktxhmm weird...19:29
JackWinterno, even though they are different processes i think they get the ram allocated in the wineserver (if that's possible?)  so i guess the problem is in the winserver.19:30
JackWinteralex-EU: or are all your kontakt instances running from the same prefix?19:31
alex-EUJackWinter: In reaper i tried both. All from one prefix, and then split between the two.19:32
JackWinteri guess it would be easy to check if the kontakt process or if the wineserver is the one allocating gigabytes?19:32
alex-EUJackWinter: When i run reaper, for each VST instance i get another reaper process, not the same as Carla, where plugins are clearly separate processes, and show that way in Htop.19:33
alex-EUJackWinter: And this is the same, whether i select Bridged, or unique process in Reaper preferences.19:34
JackWinteralex-EU: not sure i understand, but who owns the ram?  wineserver or the kontakt process?19:34
JackWinteralex-EU: ah, i see.  so it's just another thread running in the same process?  must admit i've never messed with this19:34
alex-EUJackWinter: yep.19:34
alex-EUJackWinter: with carla, each process has it's own ram allocation, or at least, that's what htop tells me.19:35
JackWinterwell that kinda makes sense19:35
JackWinteralex-EU: so it's the reaper process not the wineserver that has allocated the memory?19:36
alex-EUJackWinter: There's a further problem with reaper, in that 25-30 VSTs in one project tends to bog it down, a lot.19:36
alex-EUJackWinter: CPU starts climbing rapidly, just to keep it all running.19:37
alex-EUJackWinter: As far as i can tell, yes. Reaper allocates the ram.19:37
JackWinteralex-EU: could be.  at least that kontakt would do that.  here it really runs like greased lighting at the moment :)19:37
alex-EUJackWinter: I am so pleased you shared that with me. :)19:38
alex-EUGrrrr.....19:38
JackWinterno doubt :)19:38
JackWinterhmm, 128 frames buffer and only 100ms render ahead buffer.  think that sounds good.  now to let it run for a while19:39
alex-EUJackWinter: Now you're showing off. :)19:39
JackWinteryeah :)  but i don't like the render ahead.  change an fx parameter and it takes 0.4 secs until it changes sound.  that's kinda sucky.  i can live with 0.1s19:40
JackWinterbut render ahead is a great technique to lower the latency and dsp load19:42
JackWinteras so often a compromise.19:42
alex-EUJackWinter: Indeed.19:42
* JackWinter needs a faster computer and no more rust to store projects on19:42
JackWintermaybe someday soon i can get back to working on music instead of playing sysop :)19:43
JackWinterbeen a detour of many years by now19:43
alex-EUJackWinter: We have that in common.19:45
alex-EUfalktx: How's the wine build coming along?19:45
*** Animtim_laptop has quit IRC19:46
falktx...19:46
alex-EUfalktx: right. :)19:46
JackWinteralex-EU: surely you know by now how to build a debian package?19:50
JackWinterbut wine is kinda sucky to build if you want 64bit, as you have to build both 32 and 64b...:S19:50
JackWinterfalktx: at least it will warm up your room a bit :)19:51
alex-EUJackWinter: Not always succesfully. Wine in particular usually ends up being a nightmare.19:51
JackWinteryeah, it's kinda sucky19:51
falktxI need to get on the desktop more often19:51
falktxbut it's so damn cold here....19:51
alex-EUfalktx: another blanket?19:52
falktxthe hands "freeze", to the point of where I can't type19:52
falktxgloves make typing sorta impossible19:52
alex-EUfalktx: aah, ok. Happens here if i don't get the fires going early.19:53
falktxare there big keyboards?19:53
alex-EUfalktx: you mean old people's keyboards, with big letters?19:53
falktxI mean lots of space between characters19:53
alex-EUfalktx: i have no idea. Haven't got there yet. :)19:53
JackWinteri'm considering mounting our 46" TV on the wall in from of me as a monitor, because with 24" and 1920x1024 i can't read the text without glasses anymore :(19:57
alex-EUfalktx: http://www.amazon.com/Chester-Creek-VB2-VisionBoard2-Keyboard/dp/B000OCQTWM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421265476&sr=8-1&keywords=large+key+computer+keyboards19:59
alex-EUJackWinter: I have my 47inch about a metre and a bit away. 1920 x 120019:59
alex-EUJackWinter: I need glasses for close up work20:00
alex-EUfalktx: http://www.ergonomicsmadeeasy.com/store/specialty/product/big-keys-lx-pc-keyboard/20:02
LAbotTitle: Ergonomic Keyboards | Big Keys LX (PC) Keyboard | Ergo Big Keys Keyboards (at www.ergonomicsmadeeasy.com)20:02
alex-EUfalktx: for real men with big gloves......20:03
JackWinteralex-EU: oops, then you are further down the track than me.  i'm considering taking up eye yoga as apparently you can train your eyes for shortsightedness20:05
JackWinteror rather against it20:06
falktxabced layout!? wtf is that?20:06
*** jablo has quit IRC20:11
alex-EUfalktx: :)20:11
*** jablo has joined #kxstudio20:12
alex-EUfalktx: http://www.toxel.com/tech/2009/06/29/10-unusual-computer-keyboards/20:53
LAbotTitle: 10 Unusual Computer Keyboards (at www.toxel.com)20:53
alex-EUfalktx: there's one further down that page you can walk on. Seems ideal, you get to code and exercise at the same time. :)20:54
alex-EUfalktx: and finally, these.... http://www.theendearingdesigner.com/creative-and-unique-computer-keyboards20:58
LAbotTitle: 77 Creative and Unique Computer Keyboards • The Endearing Designer • Tips, Tricks, Tutorials, Tools and More... (at www.theendearingdesigner.com)20:58
alex-EUJackWinter: Has CPU count changed with your new wine build?21:19
JackWinterdon't think so.  i have 4 as i turned off hyper threading21:20
JackWinterhow do you see the cpu count, in reaper?21:20
alex-EUJackWinter: in Htop.21:23
JackWinterhow could wine change the cpu count in htop?21:24
JackWinterwell if you drink enough of it maybe :)21:25
alex-EUJackWinter: i'm asking if your changes have made cpu use more efficient as well.21:25
*** EamonnTobin has quit IRC21:25
JackWinterah, cpu usage?  i thought you saw more or less cpus :)21:29
JackWinterhaven't really looked at that to be honest21:29
JackWinteram more interested in latency than cpu load21:29
JackWinteralex-EU: do you see a difference?21:30
alex-EUJackWinter: haven't tried the patched version yet. But i've taken note of existing usage.21:31
alex-EUJackWinter: And i'll compare it then.21:31
JackWinteralex-EU: who knows, if the disk io is more efficient, then maybe you'll see difference21:32
alex-EUJackWinter: That's what i'm thinking.21:33
JackWinterjust tested, seems to use more cpu, but i'm running all the patches from wine-staging at the moment, so it's possible that it's not related21:37
alex-EUJackWinter: right.21:38
JackWinterno sorry.  seems to be the same cpu use for my test project.  it's reaper5 that uses less cpu than rp421:38
*** zth has quit IRC21:38
JackWintertyped rp instead of rp5 :)21:38
alex-EUJackWinter: interesting. RP5 is more efficient?21:39
alex-EUJackWinter: same settings for buffer etc as RP4?21:40
JackWintermaybe not.  i actually think i installed rp5 in that prefix too (by mistake).  but i'm too tired now.  but this prj is about 18% now.  when i ran it from the other prefix it was about 22%.  not sure why that would be21:40
JackWintersuppose it will be 64 vs 128 samples....21:41
alex-EUJackWinter: right.21:43
*** Animtim_laptop has joined #kxstudio21:47
*** Animtim_laptop has quit IRC21:51
JackWintergotta go sleep, think i'm getting a cold and have to get up early for work :(21:52
JackWintergnaight21:52
*** ariev3 has quit IRC21:59
alex-EUJackWinter: night22:04
*** falktx has quit IRC22:17
*** alex-EU has quit IRC22:40
*** falktx has joined #kxstudio22:42
*** BitPuffin has quit IRC23:03
falktxhmm, so now the tracktion devs want to hire me...23:45

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.13.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!