Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo

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To: Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey@...>
Cc: LAU <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 11:48 am

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On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Patrick Shirkey <
pshirkey@boosthardware.com> wrote:

> There are several options for professional AV editing on Linux. Lightworks

There really aren't several options for professional AV editing, if by
professional you mean AV editing in need of more advanced workflows. I
spent some time a year or two ago looking through every available option I
could find, and even for my, pretty dang basic(*), workflows I need at my
work they were all exceedingly limited and didn't hold a candle to
commercial proprietary options out there. Remember professional can mean
more than just you get paid in terms of both audio and video editing, it
can also mean something that allows you to work FAST and work through
particular workflows.

* In this case I was just looking for something with a usable titling
solution, I would have used Openshot with Blender integration myself, that
could easily and effectively do a basic chroma key and mask to allow me to
overlay the video on top of other video or generated backgrounds. This is
really what I would consider 'entry' level for most professional video
applications, and everything out there, if it could even do it, took a
multiple of the amount of time I could do it in FCPX (Or FCP7) in, time
which frankly I just don't have, and again my workflow isn't nearly as
demanding as other studio workflows. This doesn't even touch on grading
requirements, etc. I should note that I tested the NLE in Blender before
Tears of Steel was released and that work pushed into main or released, so
it may have improved there some at least.

> With a combo of Blender, Cinelerra, , kdenlive, Openshot,

Blender is decidedly focused on integrating 3D into the workflow, which is
a good thing. It does mean that using it for straight video work is much
more time consuming as well though. Cinelerra was just a hassle in many
ways when I tested it, it was actually one of the least succesful for the
time and workflow aspect I mentioned above, in no small part due to the
instability, but also from an aspect of workflow as well.

> For proprietary Linux NLE software you can use Smoke and Maya from

I wouldn't call either smoke or maya a professional NLE for a video
editor. They are tools to use in the pipeline primarily, for VFX or 3D
generation much moreso than an NLE.

> There are also several open source 3d game engines like cube2 that have

Not sure what this has to do with an NLE at all.

>

We have been through this before, you are severely overstating things.

> The truth is if they don't catch up soon they will miss their chance. I

I would say you are VERY overly optomistic. This is coming from a gamer
that uses Linux for his professional audio work, and coordinates video work
with three other people, and none of them would he consider Linux an option
for right now.

Seablade

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On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:38 AM, Patrick Shirkey <pshirk=
ey@boosthardware.com
> wrote:
There are several options for professional A=
V editing on Linux. Lightworks
has some industry clout because it has been used on several award winning
and many successful box office hits. =A0However they have been sitting on a=

beta release for over 2 years now so that's a bit lame.
There really aren't several option=
s for professional AV editing, if by professional you mean AV editing in ne=
ed of more advanced workflows.=A0 I spent some time a year or two ago looki=
ng through every available option I could find, and even for my, pretty dan=
g basic(*), workflows I need at my work they were all exceedingly limited a=
nd didn't hold a candle to commercial proprietary options out there.=A0=
Remember professional can mean more than just you get paid in terms of bot=
h audio and video editing, it can also mean something that allows you to wo=
rk FAST and work through particular workflows.
* In this case I was just looking for something with a usabl=
e titling solution, I would have used Openshot with Blender integration mys=
elf, that could easily and effectively do a basic chroma key and mask to al=
low me to overlay the video on top of other video or generated backgrounds.=
=A0 This is really what I would consider 'entry' level for most pro=
fessional video applications, and everything out there, if it could even do=
it, took a multiple of the amount of time I could do it in FCPX (Or FCP7) =
in, time which frankly I just don't have, and again my workflow isn&#39=
;t nearly as demanding as other studio workflows.=A0 This doesn't even =
touch on grading requirements, etc. I should note that I tested the NLE in =
Blender before Tears of Steel was released and that work pushed into main o=
r released, so it may have improved there some at least.
=A0
With a combo of Blender, Cinelerra, <FLOSS DAW>, kdenlive, Openshot,<=
br>
FFMPEG you can achieve almost everything that Lightworks is offering
without spending any money on software. Cinelerra and Blender are capable
of pulling off the vast majority of what Lightworks is offering. IMO the
Lightworks interface is not more intuitive than Blender or Cinelerra. They<=
br>
all have a steep learning curve and require extensive background knowledge<=
br>
to generate professional quality output.Blender is decidedly focused on integrating 3D into the workflow, which i=
s a good thing.=A0 It does mean that using it for straight video work is mu=
ch more time consuming as well though.=A0 Cinelerra was just a hassle in ma=
ny ways when I tested it, it was actually one of the least succesful for th=
e time and workflow aspect I mentioned above, in no small part due to the i=
nstability, but also from an aspect of workflow as well.

For proprietary Linux NLE software you can use Smoke and Maya from
Autodesk or Fabric Engine ( basically a proprietary clone of Blender
funded by AMD ) and for proprietary 3d generators you can use Massive from<=
br>
the people behind Peter Jacksons animation technology or a selection of 3d<=
br>
game engines like Unigine, Unity, etc... For a proprietary version of
FFMPEG you can purchase a license from multicorewareinc if you are a large<=
br>
studio, scientific organisation or government agency and you meet their
strict guidleines on gaining access to their proprietary codebase. Hint.
First you need lots of money and second you have to be on the official
technology sharing whitelist.
I wouldn't call either smoke or ma=
ya a professional NLE for a video editor.=A0 They are tools to use in the p=
ipeline primarily, for VFX or 3D generation much moreso than an NLE.=A0
=A0
There are also several open source 3d game engines like cube2 that have
advanced features and potential if you don't want to spend money on
software as well as the one built directly into Blender.
Not sure what this has to do with an N=
LE at all.=A0

All the big names in the movie industry have embraced Linux (except AVID).<=
br>
It's taking a while longer for the music software industry to get it.
We have been through this before, you =
are severely overstating things.=A0

The truth is if they don't catch up soon they will miss their chance. I=

give it 6 months before the companies stubbornly clinging on to the
windows/mac platforms get slammed now that Steam for Linux has been
released and all those people who were only keeping a Windows box to play
games on are released from that burden.
I would say you are VERY overly optomi=
stic.=A0 This is coming from a gamer that uses Linux for his professional a=
udio work, and coordinates video work with three other people, and none of =
them would he consider Linux an option for right now.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Seablade=

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Brett McCoy, (Tue Mar 12, 2:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Tue Mar 12, 9:04 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Dave Phillips, (Tue Mar 12, 9:35 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Brett McCoy, (Tue Mar 12, 9:59 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Chris Bannister, (Wed Mar 13, 10:29 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Brett McCoy, (Wed Mar 13, 11:45 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ivan Tarozzi, (Wed Mar 13, 12:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 13, 10:36 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Tue Mar 12, 10:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Brett McCoy, (Tue Mar 12, 10:15 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Bearcat M. Şándor, (Tue Mar 12, 9:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Mar 12, 11:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Brett McCoy, (Wed Mar 13, 1:45 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Hartmut Noack, (Wed Mar 13, 12:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Wed Mar 13, 12:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Mar 13, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 13, 1:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Wed Mar 13, 1:13 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Wed Mar 13, 12:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Hartmut Noack, (Wed Mar 13, 7:07 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 13, 9:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Wed Mar 13, 8:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Hartmut Noack, (Thu Mar 14, 4:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Thu Mar 14, 5:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Chris Bannister, (Sat Mar 16, 1:00 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Sat Mar 16, 1:21 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Mar 16, 1:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, david, (Sun Mar 17, 2:23 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Chris Bannister, (Sun Mar 17, 9:54 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Mar 16, 1:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Chris Bannister, (Sun Mar 17, 8:45 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Mar 17, 11:11 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, david, (Sun Mar 17, 2:27 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Mar 17, 9:52 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, drew Roberts, (Sun Mar 17, 4:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, , (Sun Mar 17, 9:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, drew Roberts, (Sun Mar 17, 11:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Mon Mar 18, 7:12 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Mar 19, 10:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Tue Mar 19, 11:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Neil C Smith, (Wed Mar 20, 11:04 am)
Re: [LAU] Kazam screencast [WAS: LightWorks for Linux Demo], Chris Bannister, (Fri Mar 22, 5:20 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 20, 11:10 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Wed Mar 20, 11:07 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, david, (Wed Mar 20, 7:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Fri Mar 22, 12:11 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Brett McCoy, (Fri Mar 22, 12:43 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Len Ovens, (Wed Mar 20, 1:04 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 20, 1:36 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 20, 12:24 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Len Ovens, (Mon Mar 18, 1:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, John Murphy, (Mon Mar 18, 11:17 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Chris Bannister, (Mon Mar 18, 10:22 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, drew Roberts, (Mon Mar 18, 2:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] enabling autologin, Len Ovens, (Tue Mar 19, 1:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Len Ovens, (Mon Mar 18, 4:52 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, drew Roberts, (Mon Mar 18, 5:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Dan MacDonald, (Thu Mar 21, 8:08 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, drew Roberts, (Thu Mar 21, 2:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Dan MacDonald, (Thu Mar 21, 7:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, drew Roberts, (Thu Mar 21, 8:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Len Ovens, (Mon Mar 18, 5:35 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, drew Roberts, (Mon Mar 18, 5:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Mar 18, 10:50 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Mon Mar 18, 10:27 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Gene Heskett, (Mon Mar 18, 2:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, John Murphy, (Mon Mar 18, 5:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Mar 18, 3:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Mon Mar 18, 4:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Federico Bruni, (Mon Mar 18, 5:54 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Gene Heskett, (Mon Mar 18, 4:38 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Mon Mar 18, 4:22 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Len Ovens, (Mon Mar 18, 5:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, drew Roberts, (Mon Mar 18, 5:49 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Mar 18, 5:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Mar 18, 6:00 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Paul Davis, (Mon Mar 18, 2:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Mar 18, 11:05 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, david, (Mon Mar 18, 8:42 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, michael noble, (Mon Mar 18, 7:56 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Mar 18, 8:42 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Mon Mar 18, 8:01 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Mar 18, 8:58 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Federico Bruni, (Mon Mar 18, 7:46 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Mar 17, 10:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Paul Davis, (Sat Mar 16, 1:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Chris Bannister, (Sun Mar 17, 9:36 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Simon Wise, (Sat Mar 16, 2:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Hartmut Noack, (Sat Mar 16, 2:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, , (Sun Mar 17, 11:55 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Mar 17, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Dragan Noveski, (Sun Mar 17, 1:35 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Mar 17, 1:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Dragan Noveski, (Sun Mar 17, 2:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, , (Sun Mar 17, 9:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Mar 17, 2:52 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Dragan Noveski, (Sun Mar 17, 3:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Mar 17, 3:33 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Chris Bannister, (Sun Mar 17, 8:31 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, david, (Sun Mar 17, 1:43 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Hartmut Noack, (Sun Mar 17, 11:19 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Mar 17, 8:38 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, , (Sun Mar 17, 11:46 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 13, 10:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ivan Tarozzi, (Thu Mar 14, 11:33 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Daniel Worth, (Thu Mar 14, 12:35 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Mar 14, 12:28 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Mar 14, 12:45 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Thu Mar 14, 11:43 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ivan Tarozzi, (Thu Mar 14, 1:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Paul Davis, (Thu Mar 14, 2:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ivan Tarozzi, (Thu Mar 14, 2:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Thu Mar 14, 3:24 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 13, 2:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 13, 1:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 13, 12:46 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 13, 8:04 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Mar 13, 4:38 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Mar 13, 11:48 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Mar 13, 12:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Mar 13, 8:52 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Robert Vogel, (Wed Mar 20, 1:21 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 20, 2:48 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Wed Mar 20, 7:57 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 20, 10:58 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Wed Mar 20, 11:01 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 20, 8:11 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 20, 8:15 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Mar 13, 9:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, michael noble, (Wed Mar 13, 1:21 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 13, 1:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Mar 13, 8:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 13, 11:36 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Mar 13, 12:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 13, 8:13 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Louigi Verona, (Wed Mar 13, 5:47 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Mar 13, 8:17 am)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Daniel Roviriego, (Tue Mar 12, 9:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Bearcat M. Şándor, (Tue Mar 12, 9:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] LightWorks for Linux Demo, Brett McCoy, (Tue Mar 12, 10:13 pm)