Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

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To: Dave Phillips <dlphillips@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-user@...>, <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 - 10:57 pm

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On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Dave Phillips wrote:

> Greetings,

The biggest problem is that there are more people talking than there are
people doing. There are a 100 people to tell you this or that UI is shit,
but absolutely no-one to step up and do something about it. Users assume
that they're going to get the same level of integration and customer
support from free-software that they get from some $7000 commercial product
and get irate when it doesn't happen. With very few exceptions, LAD
software is not written for 'the users', it is written for the needs of the
developers and gifted to the community without warranty. I think the
conflict comes up more in LAD than other free-software arenas simply
because music attracts more novice/non-technical types (particularly
annoying Windows trolls) than does, say, forensic data analysis. So the
second problem with LAD is unreasonable expectations. Nobody said the goal
of Linux Audio was to replace Non-Linux Audio. The goal of Linux Audio is
simply to provide free-software alternatives for people who give a shit
(this group consists mostly of the LAD developers themselves). Yes, the
many standards/approches can be annoying.. But since when is diversity a
bad thing? This is a living, organic process driven by people with very
limited time and resources. If you want it to move faster or work better,
all you need to do is stop running your mouth and help.

And the problem of there being no such thing as an open source graphic
designer or UX expert applies to all free-software, not just LAD.

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On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Dave Phi=
llips <dlphillips@woh.rr.com> wrote:
Greetings,

I've been reading a lot of negative (read: vitriolic) commentary about =
the world of Linux audio development and applications. I won't bother t=
o say where, just "the usual places" will have to suffice. Of gre=
ater interest to me is the commentary itself - it seems to boil down to the=
following plaints and lamentations (in no particular order) :

Too many distros.
Too many audio-optimized distros.
Not enough native plugins, esp. instruments.
Inconsistent support for VST/VSTi plugins.
Too many unstable/unfinished applications.
Too many =C2=A0"standards" (esp. wrt plugins).
Poor external/internal session management.
Poor support for certain modes of composition (think Ableton Live).
Lack of support for contemporary hardware.
Confusion re: desktops, and GUI toolkits.
Too difficult to set up audio system.
JACK is a pain.
Too much conflict/fragmentation within the development community.

I'm not so interested in comments on the commentary, I have my own, but=
say what you will about the list. I figure that most denizens of these lis=
ts already have ready replies and responses to these and other criticisms, =
many of which have been voiced here previously. What I'm more intereste=
d in is what *you* think is missing most or just plain wrong about the situ=
ation. Please, try to speak your piece without flames or dissing other deve=
lopers and/or their work. Frankly speaking, I've had enough of that cra=
p, and I'm most thankful these days for such forum amenities as "m=
ute user" and autodiscard, along with the standard filters found in ma=
il clients.

<aside>
I'm reminded of John Cage's comments regarding the behavior of the =
NY Philharmonic when they destroyed his equipment during the premire of Atl=
as Eclipticalis, something to the effect that his concerns had ceased to be=
musical and had become social, i.e. that he had to figure a way to allow p=
eople to be free yet behave themselves with respect towards the common goal=
(e.g. Cage's music and property). I'm going to guess that he was s=
till working on that up to his death.

</aside>

So, in your honest and bold opinion as user and/or developer, what do we la=
ck most and what can we do without that we already have ? Please feel free =
to expand your remarks as you like. I'm planning an article on the topi=
c and will likely use selected comments, subject to approval of course.

Best,

dpThe biggest problem is that there are more peop=
le talking than there are people doing. There are a 100 people to tell you =
this or that UI is shit, but absolutely no-one to step up and do something =
about it. Users assume that they're going to get the same level of inte=
gration and customer support from free-software that they get from some $70=
00 commercial product and get irate when it doesn't happen. With very f=
ew exceptions, LAD software is not written for 'the users', it is w=
ritten for the needs of the developers and gifted to the community without =
warranty. I think the conflict comes up more in LAD than other free-softwar=
e arenas simply because music attracts more novice/non-technical types (par=
ticularly annoying Windows trolls) than does, say, forensic data analysis. =
So the second problem with LAD is unreasonable expectations. Nobody said th=
e goal of Linux Audio was to replace Non-Linux Audio. The goal of Linux Aud=
io is simply to provide free-software alternatives for people who give a sh=
it (this group consists mostly of the LAD developers themselves). Yes, the =
many standards/approches can be annoying.. But since when is diversity a ba=
d thing? This is a living, organic process driven by people with very limit=
ed time and resources. If you want it to move faster or work better, all yo=
u need to do is stop running your mouth and help.
And the problem of there being no such thing as an open source graphic =
designer or UX expert applies to all free-software, not just LAD.=C2=A0

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dave Phillips, (Tue Feb 5, 2:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Roberto Suarez Soto, (Mon Feb 18, 9:25 am)
Re: [LAU] , , (Mon Feb 18, 4:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] , , (Mon Feb 18, 6:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Feb 18, 11:47 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Chris Bannister, (Sat Feb 16, 8:54 am)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio..., Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 9:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio..., Harry van Haaren, (Mon Feb 11, 12:25 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Nils Gey, (Mon Feb 11, 12:36 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Harry van Haaren, (Mon Feb 11, 4:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Marije Baalman, (Mon Feb 11, 8:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Feb 11, 4:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Folderol, (Mon Feb 11, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Feb 12, 4:07 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Marije Baalman, (Tue Feb 12, 11:42 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Feb 12, 10:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Paul Davis, (Wed Feb 13, 2:56 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Feb 13, 6:35 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Feb 13, 10:51 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Raffaele Morelli, (Tue Feb 12, 12:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sun Feb 10, 11:26 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, hermann meyer, (Sun Feb 10, 1:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 11:45 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dan MacDonald, (Sun Feb 10, 9:59 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Feb 10, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dan MacDonald, (Sun Feb 10, 4:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Johannes Kroll, (Tue Feb 5, 4:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Wed Feb 6, 9:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 5:41 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 5:54 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 6:45 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 6:54 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 6:55 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 6:57 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Devin Anderson, (Thu Feb 7, 8:24 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 4:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 4:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 5:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 8:03 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 8:24 am)
[LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Tue Feb 12, 2:32 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Al Thompson, (Tue Feb 12, 10:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Tue Feb 12, 11:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Al Thompson, (Wed Feb 13, 12:02 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Wed Feb 13, 2:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Feb 13, 2:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Louigi Verona, (Thu Feb 14, 4:54 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Feb 14, 9:16 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Feb 12, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Feb 12, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, david, (Tue Feb 12, 6:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 7:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 3:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 10:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Tue Feb 12, 6:39 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 10, 3:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 10, 4:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, hermann meyer, (Fri Feb 8, 12:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Feb 6, 1:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Robert Jonsson, (Tue Feb 5, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 5:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, J. Liles, (Tue Feb 5, 10:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Devin Anderson, (Tue Feb 5, 5:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 3:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 3:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 4:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Wed Feb 6, 1:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Thu Feb 7, 8:30 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Fri Feb 8, 9:26 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Florian Paul Schmidt, (Fri Feb 8, 10:29 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Thu Feb 7, 4:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Feb 9, 5:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, michael noble, (Wed Feb 6, 11:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, William Light, (Tue Feb 5, 11:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Esteban Viveros, (Wed Feb 6, 3:22 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas, (Tue Feb 5, 7:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 9:42 pm)