Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

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To: Devin Anderson <surfacepatterns@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-user@...>, <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 - 5:21 pm

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Short reply to you Devin. I agree with everything you write. A couple of
thoughts on how to adress some of the issues you raise:

User feedback. I always try and provide feedback and suggestions for
whatever I use, and I enjoy doing it too. I think alot of users would like
to do this too, but two general things is kind of lacking in this sense.
These are all general thoughts and nothing to you personally. I remember us
talking about synthclone and I appreciated that very much, so any negatives
shouldn't be taken personally by you ;) :
1. An easy way to provide this feedback, and encouragement to do so.
There's IRC, mailinglists and forums for this, but most apps actually lack
encouragement for feedback. Something as simple as writing "If you like
this software and have ideas/suggestions, please use [insert_method_here]
to contact us, all suggestions are appreciated!". The worst thing that
could happen is that the suggestion isn't used, but I think tons can be
gained by making the user feel more involved.

2. Appreciation for the feedback. Some devs are better then others on
this, but I sadly think it's fairly common that users who try and provide
feedback either get treated as complete idiots, or that the dev takes it as
some form of personal insult.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Devin Anderson w=
rote:

> Hi Dave,

e

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Short reply to you Devin. I agree with everything you write. A couple of th=
oughts on how to adress some of the issues you raise:User feedback.=
I always try and provide feedback and suggestions for whatever I use, and =
I enjoy doing it too. I think alot of users would like to do this too, but =
two general things is kind of lacking in this sense. These are all general =
thoughts and nothing to you personally. I remember us talking about synthcl=
one and I appreciated that very much, so any negatives shouldn't be tak=
en personally by you ;) :
=A0 1. An easy way to provide this feedback, and encouragement to do so. Th=
ere's IRC, mailinglists and forums for this, but most apps actually lac=
k encouragement for feedback. Something as simple as writing "If you l=
ike this software and have ideas/suggestions, please use [insert_method_her=
e] to contact us, all suggestions are appreciated!". The worst thing t=
hat could happen is that the suggestion isn't used, but I think tons ca=
n be gained by making the user feel more involved.
=A0 2. Appreciation for the feedback. Some devs are better then others =
on this, but I sadly think it's fairly common that users who try and pr=
ovide feedback either get treated as complete idiots, or that the dev takes=
it as some form of personal insult.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Devi=
n Anderson <surfacepatterns@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Dave,

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips@woh.rr.com> wrote:

> Not enough native plugins, esp. instruments.

I think this is one of the key problems with Linux audio. =A0Part of =
the
problem is that there is no clear mechanism for (non-developer) users
to create their own instruments. =A0Many VSTs are constructed with
modular DSP programs like synthedit and flowstone (formerly
synthmaker). =A0There's probably an opportunity here for Ingen or a new=

graphical DSP program based on Faust to fill this hole.

In general, I think that Linux audio has a lot of tools that help
users to create music, but not a lot of tools that help users create
their own tools (e.g. instruments, plugins, sample libraries, etc.) to
help others to create music.

On the development side, I think Aur=E9lien and others like him have the
right idea in taking instruments/plugins that are specific to a Linux
audio application and porting them to LV2. =A0There's a lot of awesome<=
br>
instruments that are specific to applications (e.g. ALSA Modular
Synth, LMMS, etc.) that would generally be more useful if they were
LV2 plugins.

> Poor external/internal session management.

Interacting with external hardware can be frustrating. =A0Commercial
programs like Renoise account for external hardware in their workflows
(e.g. latency management, MIDI clock, MMC, etc.). =A0Most Linux Audio
apps don't do this.

> Too much conflict/fragmentation within the development community.

I've been trying to write something about conflict and fragmentat=
ion
for the past 10 minutes. =A0I think this is a complex issue. =A0I'm not=

able to find the words to communicate about it right now.

> So, in your honest and bold opinion as user and/or developer, what do =
we

As a developer, I'm missing a couple things:

1.) User feedback.

I can't stress this enough. =A0I watch the download counts increase on<=
br>
the applications I create, but I hardly ever get feedback. =A0I'm
discouraged and frustrated by the lack of feedback.

2.) Non-code developers

We have a lot of dedicated open source developers writing Linux audio
apps, plugins, etc., but I have yet to meet an open source UI
designer, or an open source graphic artist. =A0I think a lot of the apps
we create could benefit from the feedback of a user interface
experience expert.

There's probably more, but these are the two things that occur to me no=
w.

Dave, this is an important topic. =A0Thanks for taking it on.

--
Devin Anderson
surfacepatterns (at) gmail (dot) com

blog - h=
ttp://surfacepatterns.blogspot.com/

midisnoop - =
http://midisnoop.googlecode.com/

psinsights - http://psinsights.googlecode.com/
synthclone - http://synthclone.googlecode.com/
_____________________=
__________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev@lis=
ts.linuxaudio.org

http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dave Phillips, (Tue Feb 5, 2:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Roberto Suarez Soto, (Mon Feb 18, 9:25 am)
Re: [LAU] , , (Mon Feb 18, 4:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] , , (Mon Feb 18, 6:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Feb 18, 11:47 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Chris Bannister, (Sat Feb 16, 8:54 am)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio..., Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 9:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio..., Harry van Haaren, (Mon Feb 11, 12:25 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Nils Gey, (Mon Feb 11, 12:36 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Harry van Haaren, (Mon Feb 11, 4:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Marije Baalman, (Mon Feb 11, 8:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Feb 11, 4:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Folderol, (Mon Feb 11, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Feb 12, 4:07 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Marije Baalman, (Tue Feb 12, 11:42 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Feb 12, 10:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Paul Davis, (Wed Feb 13, 2:56 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Feb 13, 6:35 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Feb 13, 10:51 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Raffaele Morelli, (Tue Feb 12, 12:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sun Feb 10, 11:26 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, hermann meyer, (Sun Feb 10, 1:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 11:45 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dan MacDonald, (Sun Feb 10, 9:59 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Feb 10, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dan MacDonald, (Sun Feb 10, 4:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Johannes Kroll, (Tue Feb 5, 4:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Wed Feb 6, 9:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 5:41 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 5:54 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 6:45 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 6:54 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 6:55 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 6:57 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Devin Anderson, (Thu Feb 7, 8:24 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 4:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 4:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 5:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 8:03 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 8:24 am)
[LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Tue Feb 12, 2:32 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Al Thompson, (Tue Feb 12, 10:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Tue Feb 12, 11:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Al Thompson, (Wed Feb 13, 12:02 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Wed Feb 13, 2:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Feb 13, 2:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Louigi Verona, (Thu Feb 14, 4:54 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Feb 14, 9:16 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Feb 12, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Feb 12, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, david, (Tue Feb 12, 6:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 7:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 3:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 10:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Tue Feb 12, 6:39 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 10, 3:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 10, 4:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, hermann meyer, (Fri Feb 8, 12:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Feb 6, 1:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Robert Jonsson, (Tue Feb 5, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 5:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Devin Anderson, (Tue Feb 5, 5:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Gabbe Nord, (Tue Feb 5, 5:21 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 3:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 3:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 4:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Wed Feb 6, 1:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Thu Feb 7, 8:30 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Fri Feb 8, 9:26 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Florian Paul Schmidt, (Fri Feb 8, 10:29 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Thu Feb 7, 4:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Feb 9, 5:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, michael noble, (Wed Feb 6, 11:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, William Light, (Tue Feb 5, 11:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Esteban Viveros, (Wed Feb 6, 3:22 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas, (Tue Feb 5, 7:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 9:42 pm)