Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

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To: Dave Phillips <dlphillips@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-user@...>, <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 - 4:12 pm

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Let's hope this turns into a productive thread and not a flamewar, because
I think this really has potential.

My comments will be the way I see it, and how I understand it from other
musicians I've talked to about Linux audio and music production in general.

Generally, what I think is that what needs to be bridged is the knowledge
gap that hinders people from making the music they want. There are upsides
and downsides to using Linux in this sense, I do think it attracts more
technically proficient users and that that's a good thing in the long run,
but there's only so many of them. Musicians want to record and mess around
with music. They do not want to compile applications or scour the internet
for countless hours looking for suitable plugins.

I think most things can already be done in Linux, even with newer more
MIDI-based musical styels as electronic etc. The issue in my eyes lies with
having something unitary that you can just hand over to people and let them
start messing around themselves with minimal effort.

So in short, what I think is the main issues currently is basically lack of
documentation and "established workflows" that people can just simply get
into using. There's 10 ways to do one thing, and there's rarely information
available to find out easily to use either of the ways.

I got some plans for a small project that will revolve around just
providing a workflow for making electronic music, kind of like gathering
alot of information and provide easy access to a set of plugins, synths and
instruments that people just can start using. The plug-and-play idea I
guess. But that kinds of efforts is what I think is needed more, we do have
alot of very capable technology, people just need to know how to use it.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:

> Greetings,

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Let's hope this turns into a productive thread and not a flamewar, beca=
use I think this really has potential.My comments will be the way I=
see it, and how I understand it from other musicians I've talked to ab=
out Linux audio and music production in general.

Generally, what I think is that what needs to be bridged is the knowled=
ge gap that hinders people from making the music they want. There are upsid=
es and downsides to using Linux in this sense, I do think it attracts more =
technically proficient users and that that's a good thing in the long r=
un, but there's only so many of them. Musicians want to record and mess=
around with music. They do not want to compile applications or scour the i=
nternet for countless hours looking for suitable plugins.
I think most things can already be done in Linux, even with newer more =
MIDI-based musical styels as electronic etc. The issue in my eyes lies with=
having something unitary that you can just hand over to people and let the=
m start messing around themselves with minimal effort.
So in short, what I think is the main issues currently is basically lac=
k of documentation and "established workflows" that people can ju=
st simply get into using. There's 10 ways to do one thing, and there&#3=
9;s rarely information available to find out easily to use either of the wa=
ys.
I got some plans for a small project that will revolve around just prov=
iding a workflow for making electronic music, kind of like gathering alot o=
f information and provide easy access to a set of plugins, synths and instr=
uments that people just can start using. The plug-and-play idea I guess. Bu=
t that kinds of efforts is what I think is needed more, we do have alot of =
very capable technology, people just need to know how to use it.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips@woh.rr.com> wrote:
Greetings,

I've been reading a lot of negative (read: vitriolic) commentary about =
the world of Linux audio development and applications. I won't bother t=
o say where, just "the usual places" will have to suffice. Of gre=
ater interest to me is the commentary itself - it seems to boil down to the=
following plaints and lamentations (in no particular order) :

Too many distros.
Too many audio-optimized distros.
Not enough native plugins, esp. instruments.
Inconsistent support for VST/VSTi plugins.
Too many unstable/unfinished applications.
Too many =A0"standards" (esp. wrt plugins).
Poor external/internal session management.
Poor support for certain modes of composition (think Ableton Live).
Lack of support for contemporary hardware.
Confusion re: desktops, and GUI toolkits.
Too difficult to set up audio system.
JACK is a pain.
Too much conflict/fragmentation within the development community.

I'm not so interested in comments on the commentary, I have my own, but=
say what you will about the list. I figure that most denizens of these lis=
ts already have ready replies and responses to these and other criticisms, =
many of which have been voiced here previously. What I'm more intereste=
d in is what *you* think is missing most or just plain wrong about the situ=
ation. Please, try to speak your piece without flames or dissing other deve=
lopers and/or their work. Frankly speaking, I've had enough of that cra=
p, and I'm most thankful these days for such forum amenities as "m=
ute user" and autodiscard, along with the standard filters found in ma=
il clients.

<aside>
I'm reminded of John Cage's comments regarding the behavior of the =
NY Philharmonic when they destroyed his equipment during the premire of Atl=
as Eclipticalis, something to the effect that his concerns had ceased to be=
musical and had become social, i.e. that he had to figure a way to allow p=
eople to be free yet behave themselves with respect towards the common goal=
(e.g. Cage's music and property). I'm going to guess that he was s=
till working on that up to his death.

</aside>

So, in your honest and bold opinion as user and/or developer, what do we la=
ck most and what can we do without that we already have ? Please feel free =
to expand your remarks as you like. I'm planning an article on the topi=
c and will likely use selected comments, subject to approval of course.

Best,

dp

_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
=
Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org

http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dave Phillips, (Tue Feb 5, 2:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Roberto Suarez Soto, (Mon Feb 18, 9:25 am)
Re: [LAU] , , (Mon Feb 18, 4:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] , , (Mon Feb 18, 6:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Feb 18, 11:47 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Chris Bannister, (Sat Feb 16, 8:54 am)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio..., Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 9:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio..., Harry van Haaren, (Mon Feb 11, 12:25 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Nils Gey, (Mon Feb 11, 12:36 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Harry van Haaren, (Mon Feb 11, 4:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Marije Baalman, (Mon Feb 11, 8:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Feb 11, 4:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Folderol, (Mon Feb 11, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Feb 12, 4:07 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Marije Baalman, (Tue Feb 12, 11:42 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Feb 12, 10:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Paul Davis, (Wed Feb 13, 2:56 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Feb 13, 6:35 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Feb 13, 10:51 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Raffaele Morelli, (Tue Feb 12, 12:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sun Feb 10, 11:26 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, hermann meyer, (Sun Feb 10, 1:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 11:45 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dan MacDonald, (Sun Feb 10, 9:59 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Feb 10, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dan MacDonald, (Sun Feb 10, 4:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Johannes Kroll, (Tue Feb 5, 4:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Wed Feb 6, 9:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 5:41 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 5:54 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 6:45 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 6:54 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 6:55 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 6:57 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Devin Anderson, (Thu Feb 7, 8:24 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 4:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 4:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 5:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 8:03 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 8:24 am)
[LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Tue Feb 12, 2:32 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Al Thompson, (Tue Feb 12, 10:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Tue Feb 12, 11:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Al Thompson, (Wed Feb 13, 12:02 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Wed Feb 13, 2:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Feb 13, 2:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Louigi Verona, (Thu Feb 14, 4:54 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Feb 14, 9:16 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Feb 12, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Feb 12, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, david, (Tue Feb 12, 6:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 7:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 3:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 10:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Tue Feb 12, 6:39 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 10, 3:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 10, 4:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, hermann meyer, (Fri Feb 8, 12:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Feb 6, 1:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Robert Jonsson, (Tue Feb 5, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 5:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Gabbe Nord, (Tue Feb 5, 4:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Devin Anderson, (Tue Feb 5, 5:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 3:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 3:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 4:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Wed Feb 6, 1:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Thu Feb 7, 8:30 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Fri Feb 8, 9:26 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Florian Paul Schmidt, (Fri Feb 8, 10:29 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Thu Feb 7, 4:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Feb 9, 5:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, michael noble, (Wed Feb 6, 11:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, William Light, (Tue Feb 5, 11:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Esteban Viveros, (Wed Feb 6, 3:22 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas, (Tue Feb 5, 7:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 9:42 pm)