Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music

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To: <linux-audio-user@...>, <rustompmody@...>, Stephen Stubbs <fartreader@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 1:57 pm

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Wow, I wasn't expecting this to continue. Here's my reply to another
member regarding:

On 2/18/2013 9:22 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:

{Stephen}: The Ancient Greeks did not have major keys nor minor keys.
The 'modes' used by the Medieval European monks were not the same as the
original modes of the Ancient Greeks. A great deal was lost in the
translation, or perhaps it was due to fragmentary sources.

According to Aristides Quintilianus (thought to have lived sometime
between 1 A.D. and 400 A.D.):

Within the Hypolydian tonos (* = a quarter-tone ascent, c' is middle c)

Lydian scale: e* f a b b* c' e' e*'

Dorian scale: g a a* a# d' e' e*' f' a'

Phrygian scale: g a a* a# d' e' e*' f' g'

Iastian scale: e e* f a c' d'

Mixolydian scale: e e* f g a a* a# e'

Intense Lydian scale: e e* f a c'

These are not the same scales as in Western music. I don't know Eastern
music scales. Perhaps Eastern music is closer to the Ancient Greeks
than is Western music.

The 'melos' was made up of 3 parts: notes, rhythm, and lyrics. The war
cant melos had it own rules for which notes, heavy syncopation, and
violent lyrics were to be used. The sloth or laziness melos had a
different set of rules, just like the lament melos, the religious melos,
and the other mele (plural of melos).

Thanks for the discussions,
Stephen Stubbs
Champaign, IL USA

--
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

Benjamin Franklin (American Statesman, Scientist, Philosopher, Printer, Writer, and Inventor. 1706-1790)

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Wow, I wasn't expecting this to
continue.  Here's my reply to another member regarding:

On 2/18/2013 9:22 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:

So explain how Western peoples feel sad in minor keys

while Middle Eastern peoples do not, just to mention
one non-universal emotional reaction.

[Just a conjecture]
The western notes are different from the eastern.
Speaking in C-major-centric terms, a just-intoned Ab is 8/5,
G# is 25/16. This is a difference of more than 1/3 semitone.
On an equal-tempered keyboard that note is half-way between ie
800 cents.

My conjecture is that the western ear not being familiar with
any minor-sixth other than 800 cents hears it as such.
The eastern ear auto-corrects it up to the just-intoned 8/5.
[As I said, just my conjecture]

Rusi

{Stephen}: The Ancient Greeks did not have major keys nor minor keys.
The 'modes' used by the Medieval European monks were not the same as the
original modes of the Ancient Greeks. A great deal was lost in the
translation, or perhaps it was due to fragmentary sources.

According to Aristides Quintilianus (thought to have lived sometime
between 1 A.D. and 400 A.D.):

Within the Hypolydian tonos (* = a quarter-tone ascent, c' is middle c)

Lydian scale: e* f a b b* c' e' e*'

Dorian scale: g a a* a# d' e' e*' f' a'

Phrygian scale: g a a* a# d' e' e*' f' g'

Iastian scale: e e* f a c' d'

Mixolydian scale: e e* f g a a* a# e'

Intense Lydian scale: e e* f a c'

These are not the same scales as in Western music. I don't know Eastern
music scales. Perhaps Eastern music is closer to the Ancient Greeks
than is Western music.

The 'melos' was made up of 3 parts: notes, rhythm, and lyrics. The war
cant melos had it own rules for which notes, heavy syncopation, and
violent lyrics were to be used. The sloth or laziness melos had a
different set of rules, just like the lament melos, the religious melos,
and the other mele (plural of melos).

Thanks for the discussions,
Stephen Stubbs
Champaign, IL USA

--
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin (American Statesman, Scientist, Philosopher, Printer, Writer, and Inventor. 1706-1790)

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] The Psychology of Music, david, (Fri Feb 8, 7:43 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Stephen Stubbs, (Fri Feb 8, 1:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Alf Haakon Lund, (Mon Feb 18, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Chris Bannister, (Tue Feb 19, 4:31 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, david, (Wed Feb 20, 8:12 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Alf Haakon Lund, (Wed Feb 20, 7:59 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, david, (Thu Feb 21, 6:13 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Feb 20, 11:14 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Alf Haakon Lund, (Wed Feb 20, 8:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, david, (Mon Feb 18, 7:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, David Baron, (Mon Feb 18, 6:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, david, (Sat Feb 9, 5:25 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Folderol, (Sat Feb 9, 9:05 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, david, (Sun Feb 10, 3:04 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, David L. Craig, (Fri Feb 8, 3:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Rustom Mody, (Tue Feb 19, 3:22 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Stephen Stubbs, (Tue Feb 19, 1:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Paul Davis, (Tue Feb 19, 2:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Neil, (Thu Feb 21, 1:21 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Rustom Mody, (Thu Feb 21, 3:10 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Thu Feb 21, 3:39 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Rustom Mody, (Thu Feb 21, 4:02 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, david, (Sat Feb 9, 5:18 am)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, Len Ovens, (Fri Feb 8, 2:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] The Psychology of Music, david, (Sat Feb 9, 5:22 am)