Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

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To: Dave Phillips <dlphillips@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-user@...>, <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Sunday, February 10, 2013 - 9:59 am

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I don't think Linux audio sucks at all when you compare it to whats
available for free on the other platforms - they suck in comparison if we
take commercial software out of it. If we're talking about commercial apps
and plugins then indeed Linux still has a long way to go.

My main issues with Linux Audio are mainly JACK related:

* JACK needs to become more plug-and-play. I think its a shame it still
offers no way to auto-detect optimal settings on any given setup and
instead the user has to find out what options to tweak then find the best
settings through trial and error.

* JACK can still fail to start and just leave the user with some pretty
cryptic errors as to why it failed. It is more verbose if the user has lsof
installed but under Debuntu at least lsof is not a dep of JACK and so isn't
guaranteed to be installed so the user has to know JACK or Linux well to
know that that should be installed too to get more descriptive errors.
Ideally, JACK, qjackctl and Cadence etc would say 'App/process xxx is
blocking JACK from starting. Would you like to kill it? Yes/No"

* JACK can't hot swap audio devices and so if the user wants this feature
they have to integrate PA with JACK which sadly still isn't straightforward
under many popular distros and then the user has to learn about how ALSA,
PA and JACK interact.

I'm hopeful my first two issues can and will be fixed eventually but I
doubt JACK will ever have device hotswap capability which admittedly isn't
something you're likely to do midway through an Ardour or whatever session
but would be lovely if it worked!

Thats about it. I think our community is absolutely fantastic and one of
the best things on the whole internet - everyone is so helpful and we have
a huge amount of talent and knowledge on here.

In fact, I'm a bit concerned that if Bitwig leads to an explosion of
commercial apps and plugins for Linux and LA busts out of its niche that
LA* will suffer a kinda Ubuntu/Android effect where these lists will get
swamped with newb questions and cause many of our valued members to
unsubscribe.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:

> Greetings,

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I don't think Linux audio sucks at all when you compare it to whats ava=
ilable for free on the other platforms - they suck in comparison if we take=
commercial software out of it. If we're talking about commercial apps =
and plugins then indeed Linux still has a long way to go.
My main issues with Linux Audio are mainly JACK related:* JACK =
needs to become more plug-and-play. I think its a shame it still offers no =
way to auto-detect optimal settings on any given setup and instead the user=
has to find out what options to tweak then find the best settings through =
trial and error.
* JACK can still fail to start and just leave the user with some pretty=
cryptic errors as to why it failed. It is more verbose if the user has lso=
f installed but under Debuntu at least lsof is not a dep of JACK and so isn=
't guaranteed to be installed so the user has to know JACK or Linux wel=
l to know that that should be installed too to get more descriptive errors.=
Ideally, JACK, qjackctl and Cadence etc would say 'App/process xxx is =
blocking JACK from starting. Would you like to kill it? Yes/No"
* JACK can't hot swap audio devices and so if the user wants this f=
eature they have to integrate PA with JACK which sadly still isn't stra=
ightforward under many popular distros and then the user has to learn about=
how ALSA, PA and JACK interact.
I'm hopeful my first two issues can and will be fixed eventually bu=
t I doubt JACK will ever have device hotswap capability which admittedly is=
n't something you're likely to do midway through an Ardour or whate=
ver session but would be lovely if it worked!
Thats about it. I think our community is absolutely fantastic and one o=
f the best things on the whole internet - everyone is so helpful and we hav=
e a huge amount of talent and knowledge on here.In fact, I'm a =
bit concerned that if Bitwig leads to an explosion of commercial apps and p=
lugins for Linux and LA busts out of its niche that LA* will suffer a kinda=
Ubuntu/Android effect where these lists will get swamped with newb questio=
ns and cause many of our valued members to unsubscribe.
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Dave Phi=
llips <dlphillips@woh.rr.com> wrote:
Greetings,

I've been reading a lot of negative (read: vitriolic) commentary about =
the world of Linux audio development and applications. I won't bother t=
o say where, just "the usual places" will have to suffice. Of gre=
ater interest to me is the commentary itself - it seems to boil down to the=
following plaints and lamentations (in no particular order) :

Too many distros.
Too many audio-optimized distros.
Not enough native plugins, esp. instruments.
Inconsistent support for VST/VSTi plugins.
Too many unstable/unfinished applications.
Too many =A0"standards" (esp. wrt plugins).
Poor external/internal session management.
Poor support for certain modes of composition (think Ableton Live).
Lack of support for contemporary hardware.
Confusion re: desktops, and GUI toolkits.
Too difficult to set up audio system.
JACK is a pain.
Too much conflict/fragmentation within the development community.

I'm not so interested in comments on the commentary, I have my own, but=
say what you will about the list. I figure that most denizens of these lis=
ts already have ready replies and responses to these and other criticisms, =
many of which have been voiced here previously. What I'm more intereste=
d in is what *you* think is missing most or just plain wrong about the situ=
ation. Please, try to speak your piece without flames or dissing other deve=
lopers and/or their work. Frankly speaking, I've had enough of that cra=
p, and I'm most thankful these days for such forum amenities as "m=
ute user" and autodiscard, along with the standard filters found in ma=
il clients.

<aside>
I'm reminded of John Cage's comments regarding the behavior of the =
NY Philharmonic when they destroyed his equipment during the premire of Atl=
as Eclipticalis, something to the effect that his concerns had ceased to be=
musical and had become social, i.e. that he had to figure a way to allow p=
eople to be free yet behave themselves with respect towards the common goal=
(e.g. Cage's music and property). I'm going to guess that he was s=
till working on that up to his death.

</aside>

So, in your honest and bold opinion as user and/or developer, what do we la=
ck most and what can we do without that we already have ? Please feel free =
to expand your remarks as you like. I'm planning an article on the topi=
c and will likely use selected comments, subject to approval of course.

Best,

dp

_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
=
Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org

http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dave Phillips, (Tue Feb 5, 2:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Roberto Suarez Soto, (Mon Feb 18, 9:25 am)
Re: [LAU] , , (Mon Feb 18, 4:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] , , (Mon Feb 18, 6:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Feb 18, 11:47 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Chris Bannister, (Sat Feb 16, 8:54 am)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio..., Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 9:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio..., Harry van Haaren, (Mon Feb 11, 12:25 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Nils Gey, (Mon Feb 11, 12:36 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Harry van Haaren, (Mon Feb 11, 4:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Marije Baalman, (Mon Feb 11, 8:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Feb 11, 4:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Folderol, (Mon Feb 11, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Feb 12, 4:07 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Marije Baalman, (Tue Feb 12, 11:42 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Feb 12, 10:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Paul Davis, (Wed Feb 13, 2:56 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Feb 13, 6:35 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Feb 13, 10:51 am)
Re: [LAU] LAC 2013, why not more students?, Raffaele Morelli, (Tue Feb 12, 12:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sun Feb 10, 11:26 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, hermann meyer, (Sun Feb 10, 1:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 11:45 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dan MacDonald, (Sun Feb 10, 9:59 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Feb 10, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dan MacDonald, (Sun Feb 10, 4:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Johannes Kroll, (Tue Feb 5, 4:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Wed Feb 6, 9:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 5:41 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 5:54 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 6:45 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 6:54 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 6:55 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 6:57 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Devin Anderson, (Thu Feb 7, 8:24 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 4:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 4:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louis Gorenfeld, (Thu Feb 7, 5:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 8:03 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 8:24 am)
[LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Tue Feb 12, 2:32 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Al Thompson, (Tue Feb 12, 10:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Tue Feb 12, 11:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Al Thompson, (Wed Feb 13, 12:02 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, drew Roberts, (Wed Feb 13, 2:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Wed Feb 13, 2:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Louigi Verona, (Thu Feb 14, 4:54 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Feb 14, 9:16 am)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Feb 12, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Feb 12, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Changerd: Copyright laws and such, david, (Tue Feb 12, 6:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 7:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 3:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Mon Feb 11, 10:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Tue Feb 12, 6:39 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 10, 3:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 10, 4:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Sun Feb 10, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, hermann meyer, (Fri Feb 8, 12:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 7, 12:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Feb 6, 1:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Robert Jonsson, (Tue Feb 5, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 5:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Devin Anderson, (Tue Feb 5, 5:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 3:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 3:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 4:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Wed Feb 6, 1:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Thu Feb 7, 8:30 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Fri Feb 8, 9:26 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Florian Paul Schmidt, (Fri Feb 8, 10:29 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Raffaele Morelli, (Thu Feb 7, 4:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Feb 9, 5:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, michael noble, (Wed Feb 6, 11:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, William Light, (Tue Feb 5, 11:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Esteban Viveros, (Wed Feb 6, 3:22 am)
Re: [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas, (Tue Feb 5, 7:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Tue Feb 5, 9:42 pm)