Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.)

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To: Jörn Nettingsmeier <nettings@...>
Cc: LAU <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012 - 10:43 am

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Nettings hit most of it on the head, but I will add a few comments...

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:23 PM, J=F6rn Nettingsmeier <
nettings@stackingdwarves.net> wrote:

> On 12/29/2012 09:55 PM, Len Ovens wrote:

or
Well partially beyond the range of the technical. Blunt Instruments first,
then come back and redo it right. The System EQ should be set so the sound
coming out of the speakers and being heard by the audience is as flat
response as possible. Use channel EQ to shape the sound of the singer's
voice. The system EQ should be used very minimally if at all to shape the
overall sound of the system other than to get it to a flat response.

- vocal three, female, classic trained.. hardly needs a mic at all but

still - it's nice to have a decent mike on a good voice, where it will make

Agreed. Especially if your other vocals are amplified, this can sound
somewhat unnatural unless you have some going through the PA sadly. It
really depends though.

>

Used to agree with you, but honestly sometimes it is much easier to boost
one or two bands than to cut 28:) But yes you should always be cutting
rather than boosting as it means you are adding headroom before feedback,
not taking away.

> honestly, an omni mike won't help you. fons does have a point in saying

Yes, any use of an omni mic on stage really necessitates making sure that
your system is as flat response as possible, see my comments above.

> get a mixer with two semi-parametric mids, problem solved. very decent

i
t
For smaller format mixers, look at the MixWizard series, also from Allen
and Heath.

>

d
e.
d
Depends actually. I can utilize shotguns when I need to in a theater, but
you are correct in that you have to be very careful. I have used them on
stages for vocal pickup as well as tap pickups. But unless you KNOW what
you are doing, these are the wrong mics to use, and are certainly the wrong
mic to use in this case absolutely.

Seablade

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Nettings hit most of it on the head, but I will add a few =
comments...On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:23 PM, J=F6rn Nettingsmeier &=
lt;nettin=
gs@stackingdwarves.net
> wrote:
On 12/29/2012 09:55 PM, Le=
n Ovens wrote:

=A0 - lead vocal (also da boss), Male, uses stand. sets the eq on the PA fo=
r
bass and highend up and midrange down (U shaped yuck)

...

problem identified :) solving it is beyond the realm of the technical and m=
ay necessitate the use of blunt instruments.Well partially beyond the range of the techni=
cal.=A0 Blunt Instruments first, then come back and redo it right.=A0 The S=
ystem EQ should be set so the sound coming out of the speakers and being he=
ard by the audience is as flat response as possible.=A0 Use channel EQ to s=
hape the sound of the singer's voice.=A0 The system EQ should be used v=
ery minimally if at all to shape the overall sound of the system other than=
to get it to a flat response.
=A0

=A0 - vocal three, female, classic trained.. hardly needs a mic at all but<=
br>
has the Dixon I mentioned before... may as well be using a carbon pile
telephone handset.. lucky she doesn't need much reinforcement.

still - it's nice to have a decent mike on a good voice, where it will =
make a difference.Agreed.=A0 Especially if your other vocals are amplified, this can =
sound somewhat unnatural unless you have some going through the PA sadly.=
=A0 It really depends though.

i honestly don't know why a 30-band eq lets you boost stuff. 99% of use=
rs would be much better off having an eq that only provides attenuation.Used to agree wit=
h you, but honestly sometimes it is much easier to boost one or two bands t=
han to cut 28:)=A0 But yes you should always be cutting rather than boostin=
g as it means you are adding headroom before feedback, not taking away.
=A0
honestly, an omni mike won't help you. fons does have a point in saying=
that omni mikes have some advantages and could be put to good use outside =
the realm of classical recording, but until someone sorts out your lead sin=
ger problem, that's academic :)
Yes, any use of an omni mic on stage=
really necessitates making sure that your system is as flat response as po=
ssible, see my comments above.=A0

get a mixer with two semi-parametric mids, problem solved. very decent ones=
are available nowadays at very low cost. a year ago, i got the club i work=
for to invest in a new board (an a&h gl 2800 for about 3k euros plus t=
axes, which is really negligible for a professional venue), and the musicia=
ns have been more than happy with it. a board with that feature set and sou=
nd quality would have been high in the five digits 15 years ago. nowadays, =
there's really no need (and no excuse) to work with inadequate mixers i=
f you're serious about your music.
For smaller format mixers, look =
at the MixWizard series, also from Allen and Heath.=A0=

When I was in broadcast(80 to 85), the ENG guys had sennheiser shotguns.
They used them both camera mounted or hand held... the talking head could
hold the mic very low almost out of the picture.

shotguns are not useful for music stages. they do have better side rejectio=
n in theory, but at the cost of a very irregular off-axis response. the few=
times i used shotguns in the theatre, i found they would give me even less=
gain before feedback than a standard supercardioid, and required insane fi=
ltering.

Depends actually.=A0 I can utilize sho=
tguns when I need to in a theater, but you are correct in that you have to =
be very careful.=A0 I have used them on stages for vocal pickup as well as =
tap pickups.=A0 But unless you KNOW what you are doing, these are the wrong=
mics to use, and are certainly the wrong mic to use in this case absolutel=
y.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Seab=
lade

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[LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., John Murphy, (Sat Dec 22, 2:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 1:57 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., John Murphy, (Sun Dec 23, 2:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 5:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 3:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 22, 5:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., John Murphy, (Sat Dec 22, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 22, 9:00 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 9:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sun Dec 23, 3:21 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 5:54 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Paul Davis, (Sat Dec 22, 5:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 6:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 1:53 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Dec 23, 11:33 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Mon Dec 24, 2:43 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Dec 24, 8:59 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ricardus Vincente, (Mon Dec 24, 3:13 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Mon Dec 24, 10:22 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Mon Dec 24, 11:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ricardus Vincente, (Mon Dec 24, 11:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Tue Dec 25, 1:34 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Tue Dec 25, 11:47 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 3:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Brent Busby, (Mon Dec 24, 4:46 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Dec 24, 9:12 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Florian Paul Schmidt, (Mon Dec 24, 9:45 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 12:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jeremy Jongepier, (Tue Dec 25, 1:24 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Florian Paul Schmidt, (Tue Dec 25, 1:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Fri Dec 28, 2:35 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Florian Paul Schmidt, (Fri Dec 28, 10:31 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Fri Dec 28, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Dec 29, 6:22 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Arnold Krille, (Sat Dec 29, 9:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Florian Paul Schmidt, (Sat Dec 29, 8:54 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Dec 29, 11:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Sun Dec 30, 12:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 30, 2:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 29, 6:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Cannam, (Fri Dec 28, 4:52 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Folderol, (Fri Dec 28, 5:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Cannam, (Fri Dec 28, 11:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Dec 28, 10:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Sat Dec 29, 2:03 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Dec 29, 11:27 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Sat Dec 29, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Raffaele Morelli, (Fri Dec 28, 11:12 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 2:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Fri Dec 28, 3:10 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Fri Dec 28, 6:25 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jeremy Jongepier, (Fri Dec 28, 1:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Fri Dec 28, 2:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Fri Dec 28, 7:13 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Thu Dec 27, 3:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Dec 27, 5:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Thu Dec 27, 11:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 5:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Thu Dec 27, 10:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, (Mon Dec 31, 2:28 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Mon Dec 31, 8:15 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Charles Henry, (Mon Dec 31, 8:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Wed Jan 2, 8:35 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Mon Dec 31, 9:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Charles Henry, (Mon Dec 31, 9:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Tim E. Real, (Mon Dec 31, 10:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Jan 1, 5:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Tue Jan 1, 6:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Tue Jan 1, 7:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Wed Jan 2, 12:26 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Tim E. Real, (Wed Jan 2, 8:14 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Wed Jan 2, 8:23 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Jan 8, 2:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Folderol, (Mon Dec 31, 10:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Wed Jan 2, 8:43 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Fri Dec 28, 2:38 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Thu Dec 27, 11:22 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Fri Dec 28, 4:41 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Thu Dec 27, 11:24 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Thu Dec 27, 11:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Thu Dec 27, 11:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Thu Dec 27, 11:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Fri Dec 28, 12:22 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Fri Dec 28, 5:30 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Dec 28, 12:18 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 29, 2:38 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Dec 29, 11:13 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sat Dec 29, 2:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Dec 29, 7:54 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Sun Dec 30, 4:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 30, 4:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sun Dec 30, 4:57 pm)
[LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 29, 8:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Marius Janßen, (Sat Dec 29, 11:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Roger, (Sun Dec 30, 9:35 am)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 30, 10:48 am)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Dec 29, 11:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 30, 10:43 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sat Dec 29, 2:55 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Bob van der Poel, (Sat Dec 29, 3:07 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Brett McCoy, (Thu Dec 27, 11:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Dec 27, 11:07 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Wed Dec 26, 5:51 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 7:17 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Brent Busby, (Mon Dec 24, 4:38 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 1:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jeremy Jongepier, (Tue Dec 25, 1:33 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 2:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Tue Dec 25, 2:11 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 5:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 2:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., SxDx, (Mon Dec 24, 3:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 1:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 3:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ricardus Vincente, (Mon Dec 24, 4:33 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Paul Davis, (Mon Dec 24, 3:46 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 4:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 5:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 4:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 3:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Paul Davis, (Mon Dec 24, 2:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 1:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., SxDx, (Mon Dec 24, 8:58 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Mon Dec 24, 3:14 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ricardus Vincente, (Mon Dec 24, 3:23 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 10:45 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 5:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 9:35 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 10:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 10:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Sun Dec 23, 10:32 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Sun Dec 23, 10:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Joe Hartley, (Sun Dec 23, 6:07 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 9:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Sun Dec 23, 7:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 10:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Mon Dec 24, 3:20 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 1:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 12:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Thu Dec 27, 1:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 3:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Mon Dec 24, 4:13 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Mon Dec 24, 3:47 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Mon Dec 24, 3:49 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Sun Dec 23, 10:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Paul Davis, (Sat Dec 22, 9:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 10:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 7:10 pm)