Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant.

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To: Fons Adriaensen <fons@...>
Cc: LAU <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 2:48 pm

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On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 06:38:24PM -0800, Len Ovens wrote:

A directional mic can give quite a bit more than just a few dB of added
headroom before feedback. Take a look at the frequency response charts of
the 'standard', the SM58, which pretty much has 10dB down across the
board(Until you get into the very low frequency signals that usually don't
exist in a vocal mic anyways if you are using a high pass filter). Even at
125, the lowest frequency they have plotted and still exceedingly low for a
vocal mic, you are 10dB down at 30 degrees off the back axis, and even at
90 degrees off still 5dB down. That can be a huge difference on a pop/rock
stage for instance, particularly if the mic stays on a stand for backup
vocals etc.

Of course this doesn't get helped when you get a vocalist that doesn't have
a clue what they are doing and wants to look 'cool' and cups the damn
grille.

Another aspect is that some singers will work the mic specifically for the
change in EQ given by a bass boost from proximity effect as well. It
depends on who they are whether this is worth it at all, but is something
to keep in mind obviously. But see my above point about people wanting to
'look cool' and not knowing what the hell they are actually doing, it
applies here as well:)

> Another thing that affects feedback and is often overlooked is

Now this is completely correct and one of the reasons that many mics may be
more suitable than others on stage, but primarily this really comes into
play with monitors honestly.

Thomas

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On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Fons Adriaensen <fons@=
linuxaudio.org
> wrote:
On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 06=
:38:24PM -0800, Len Ovens wrote:

> I would guess a lot of that is omni vs. cardioid. How does that effect=

> monitoring (the main reason for directionality on stage)?

A directional mic wil give you a few dB advantage, but only if it
is and _stays_ oriented correctly - something you can't always
count on. OTOH an omni can be used very close more easily.
A directional mic can give quite a bit=
more than just a few dB of added headroom before feedback.=A0 Take a look =
at the frequency response charts of the 'standard', the SM58, which=
pretty much has 10dB down across the board(Until you get into the very low=
frequency signals that usually don't exist in a vocal mic anyways if y=
ou are using a high pass filter).=A0 Even at 125, the lowest frequency they=
have plotted and still exceedingly low for a vocal mic, you are 10dB down =
at 30 degrees off the back axis, and even at 90 degrees off still 5dB down.=
=A0 That can be a huge difference on a pop/rock stage for instance, particu=
larly if the mic stays on a stand for backup vocals etc.
Of course this doesn't get helped when you get a vocalist that does=
n't have a clue what they are doing and wants to look 'cool' an=
d cups the damn grille.Another aspect is that some singe=
rs will work the mic specifically for the change in EQ given by a bass boos=
t from proximity effect as well.=A0 It depends on who they are whether this=
is worth it at all, but is something to keep in mind obviously.=A0 But see=
my above point about people wanting to 'look cool' and not knowing=
what the hell they are actually doing, it applies here as well:)
=A0
Another thing that affects feedback and is often overlooked is
the frequency response (of all components in the chain).
Narrow peaks of a few dB =A0(which will not even affect the sound
quality) will negate any advantage there is in using a directional
mic.
Now thi=
s is completely correct and one of the reasons that many mics may be more s=
uitable than others on stage, but primarily this really comes into play wit=
h monitors honestly.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Thomas

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., John Murphy, (Sat Dec 22, 2:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 1:57 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., John Murphy, (Sun Dec 23, 2:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 5:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 3:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 22, 5:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., John Murphy, (Sat Dec 22, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 22, 9:00 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 9:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sun Dec 23, 3:21 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 5:54 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Paul Davis, (Sat Dec 22, 5:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 6:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 1:53 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Dec 23, 11:33 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Mon Dec 24, 2:43 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Dec 24, 8:59 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ricardus Vincente, (Mon Dec 24, 3:13 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Mon Dec 24, 10:22 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Mon Dec 24, 11:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ricardus Vincente, (Mon Dec 24, 11:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Tue Dec 25, 1:34 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Tue Dec 25, 11:47 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 3:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Brent Busby, (Mon Dec 24, 4:46 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Mon Dec 24, 9:12 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Florian Paul Schmidt, (Mon Dec 24, 9:45 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 12:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jeremy Jongepier, (Tue Dec 25, 1:24 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Florian Paul Schmidt, (Tue Dec 25, 1:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Fri Dec 28, 2:35 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Florian Paul Schmidt, (Fri Dec 28, 10:31 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Fri Dec 28, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Dec 29, 6:22 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Arnold Krille, (Sat Dec 29, 9:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Florian Paul Schmidt, (Sat Dec 29, 8:54 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Dec 29, 11:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Sun Dec 30, 12:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 30, 2:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 29, 6:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Cannam, (Fri Dec 28, 4:52 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Folderol, (Fri Dec 28, 5:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Cannam, (Fri Dec 28, 11:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Dec 28, 10:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Sat Dec 29, 2:03 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Dec 29, 11:27 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Sat Dec 29, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Raffaele Morelli, (Fri Dec 28, 11:12 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 2:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Fri Dec 28, 3:10 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Fri Dec 28, 6:25 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jeremy Jongepier, (Fri Dec 28, 1:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Fri Dec 28, 2:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Fri Dec 28, 7:13 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Thu Dec 27, 3:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Dec 27, 5:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Thu Dec 27, 11:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 5:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Thu Dec 27, 10:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, (Mon Dec 31, 2:28 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Mon Dec 31, 8:15 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Charles Henry, (Mon Dec 31, 8:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Wed Jan 2, 8:35 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Mon Dec 31, 9:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Charles Henry, (Mon Dec 31, 9:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Tim E. Real, (Mon Dec 31, 10:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Jan 1, 5:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Tue Jan 1, 6:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Tue Jan 1, 7:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Wed Jan 2, 12:26 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Tim E. Real, (Wed Jan 2, 8:14 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Wed Jan 2, 8:23 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Tue Jan 8, 2:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Folderol, (Mon Dec 31, 10:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Wed Jan 2, 8:43 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Fri Dec 28, 2:38 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Thu Dec 27, 11:22 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Fri Dec 28, 4:41 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Thu Dec 27, 11:24 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Thu Dec 27, 11:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Neil, (Thu Dec 27, 11:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Thu Dec 27, 11:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Fri Dec 28, 12:22 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Fri Dec 28, 5:30 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Dec 28, 12:18 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 29, 2:38 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Dec 29, 11:13 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sat Dec 29, 2:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Dec 29, 7:54 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Sun Dec 30, 4:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 30, 4:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Len Ovens, (Sun Dec 30, 4:57 pm)
[LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Len Ovens, (Sat Dec 29, 8:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Marius Janßen, (Sat Dec 29, 11:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Roger, (Sun Dec 30, 9:35 am)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 30, 10:48 am)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Dec 29, 11:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] Live mic and monitoring (was rant.), Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 30, 10:43 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sat Dec 29, 2:55 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Bob van der Poel, (Sat Dec 29, 3:07 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Brett McCoy, (Thu Dec 27, 11:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Dec 27, 11:07 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Al Thompson, (Wed Dec 26, 5:51 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 7:17 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Brent Busby, (Mon Dec 24, 4:38 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 1:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Jeremy Jongepier, (Tue Dec 25, 1:33 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 2:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Tue Dec 25, 2:11 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 5:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 2:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., SxDx, (Mon Dec 24, 3:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 1:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 3:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ricardus Vincente, (Mon Dec 24, 4:33 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Paul Davis, (Mon Dec 24, 3:46 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 4:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 5:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 4:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 3:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Paul Davis, (Mon Dec 24, 2:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 1:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., SxDx, (Mon Dec 24, 8:58 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Mon Dec 24, 3:14 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ricardus Vincente, (Mon Dec 24, 3:23 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 10:45 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 5:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 9:35 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Dec 23, 10:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 10:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Sun Dec 23, 10:32 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Sun Dec 23, 10:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Joe Hartley, (Sun Dec 23, 6:07 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 9:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Sun Dec 23, 7:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 10:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Chris Bannister, (Mon Dec 24, 3:20 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 1:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 12:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Thu Dec 27, 1:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Thu Dec 27, 3:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Gene Heskett, (Mon Dec 24, 4:13 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Mon Dec 24, 3:47 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Mon Dec 24, 3:49 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Sun Dec 23, 10:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Paul Davis, (Sat Dec 22, 9:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 10:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 7:10 pm)