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On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Len Ovens  wrote:
>

quoted text
> On Thu, December 27, 2012 4:18 pm, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

> >>sm58

>

> > IMHO in most cases they sound horrible, and the sound changes

> > all the time unless they are kept at exactly the same distance.

> > I've started giving singers etc. a Beyer M58 instead. This is

> > an omni dynamic, originally designed for ENG/EFP so it can take

> > some abuse. It works very well for singers, and when used

> > outdoors it picks up much less wind noise than an SM58.

>

> I would guess a lot of that is omni vs. cardioid. How does that effect

> monitoring (the main reason for directionality on stage)? I can't see us

> getting in ear monitoring any time soon. I think new mics are something

> that has a chance.... I may be allowed to replace the worst of the lot

> anyway (a Dixon.... worse than most karaoke mics... certainly worse than

> the sm58). I have had trouble with battery or phantom power for stage work

> with loud pops every time the singer moves so dynamic is what I want even

> if it sounds less than studio worthy.

>

>

Actually monitoring is only one reason directional mics get used on a

stage.  The other is more simply preventing bleed and phase problems.  Try

close micing two rack toms for instance and you will rapdily discover the

problem.  Or try keeping the cymbal bleed out of the vocal mic. This list

can go on for quite a while.

Using Omnis on stage generally isn't a good idea, but can be done.  For

instance due to proximity effect, similarly to what Fons mentions, is why

you will find musical theater always uses omni-directional microphones.

Then again I don't see many concert mixer mixing a concert like a

theatrical mixer mixes a live musical (At least a good theatrical mixer).

You are literally changing levels every line.  However you might get more

detailed in other ways in concert mixing, for instance with effect

processing and similar, but personally I find theatrical mixing a huge

order more difficult than most concert mixing I do.
Likewise I just this past week did a concert with a second drum kit on

stage that my music director went to for one song, which was a collection

of toms and a snare for a more high energy version of 'Little Drummer

Boy'.  They were all grouped together so I used a single omni mic to pick

up the entire setup, it worked really well.
       Seablade
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On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Len Ovens <len@ovenwerks.net&=

gt; wrote:
On Thu, December 27, 2012 4:18 pm, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

quoted text
>>sm58

> IMHO in most cases they sound horrible, and the sound changes

quoted text
> all the time unless they are kept at exactly the same distance.

> I've started giving singers etc. a Beyer M58 instead. This is

> an omni dynamic, originally designed for ENG/EFP so it can take

> some abuse. It works very well for singers, and when used

> outdoors it picks up much less wind noise than an SM58.

I would guess a lot of that is omni vs. cardioid. How does that effec=

t

monitoring (the main reason for directionality on stage)? I can't see u=

s

getting in ear monitoring any time soon. I think new mics are something

that has a chance.... I may be allowed to replace the worst of the lot

anyway (a Dixon.... worse than most karaoke mics... certainly worse than

the sm58). I have had trouble with battery or phantom power for stage work<=

br>

with loud pops every time the singer moves so dynamic is what I want even

if it sounds less than studio worthy.

Actually monitoring is only one reason directional m=

ics get used on a stage.=A0 The other is more simply preventing bleed and p=

hase problems.=A0 Try close micing two rack toms for instance and you will =

rapdily discover the problem.=A0 Or try keeping the cymbal bleed out of the=

 vocal mic. This list can go on for quite a while.

Using Omnis on stage generally isn't a good idea, but ca=

n be done.=A0 For instance due to proximity effect, similarly to what Fons =

mentions, is why you will find musical theater always uses omni-directional=

 microphones.=A0 Then again I don't see many concert mixer mixing a con=

cert like a theatrical mixer mixes a live musical (At least a good theatric=

al mixer).=A0 You are literally changing levels every line.=A0 However you =

might get more detailed in other ways in concert mixing, for instance with =

effect processing and similar, but personally I find theatrical mixing a hu=

ge order more difficult than most concert mixing I do.

Likewise I just this past week did a concert with a second d=

rum kit on stage that my music director went to for one song, which was a c=

ollection of toms and a snare for a more high energy version of 'Little=

 Drummer Boy'.=A0 They were all grouped together so I used a single omn=

i mic to pick up the entire setup, it worked really well.

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Seablade
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