Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant.

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To: Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey@...>
Cc: LAU <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 4:20 pm

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On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 6:22 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:

>

Again I repeat. You haven't tested enough then. All of the equipment I
mentioned have been sold in the last 10 years, and extends far beyond just
their mixers. Yes some of their equipment is good, much more in my
experience is bad.

>

Yes they are better lately, but it does not, in my opinion, excuse past
missteps of that magnitude. Of course the line you were replying to had
nothing to do with internal board layout and was in response to your
comment about marketing.

And no, producets from other manufacturers don't all look the same
internally in my experience. For example there is a huge difference
between a Mackie console at 24 channels and A&H, easily replaceable channel
strips for one thing. Similar for a Soundcraft, etc. Even those other
manufacturers that go for single board construction looks different in my
experience.

> I'm not actually a fan but I think a lot of people round here make a big

I think it is just you are either exceedingly lucky, or very limited
selection of their hardware honestly. My experience has been mirrored by
many professional audio engineers with a large selection of their
products. Again not all their products are horrible, some have very good
sound for instance, but in all cases if I buy one I am buying two for when
it breaks, and also in all cases I would much rather spend a little more to
get something I don't have to worry about that on.

> Anyway I don't sell mass manufactured audio hardware in a chain of stores

I know of some of the larger professional audio distributors in the US that
used to carry Behringer, and stopped (In at least the case of one which is
one of the largest in the past 5 years) due to the amount of support
requests and returns they had on them. Mind you most of the places I go
through also end up providing at least limited support on whatever they
sell as well because they develop relationships with the people they deal
with, and want to make sure they sell what is going to fit their needs. In
the case of that distributor it looks like they are starting to try them
again, this is a very recent development for them, within the past year or
so. I would be curious to have a conversation with one of the reps I deal
with there (Depending on whether I am buying for myself, or one of the
several companies I buy for determines which rep I deal with) to see what
the reasoning is there.

Seablade

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On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 6:22 AM, Patrick Shirkey =
<pshirke=
y@boosthardware.com
> wrote:

Yes, over ten years ago Behringer's large mixing consoles h=
ad marginal or
inadequate power supplies. =A0Smart audio engineers bought them anyway and<=
br>
first thing ripped out the power supplies, put in a socket, and added an
external supply to feed the necessary DC power to the mixer. =A0The last tw=
o
generations of Behringer mixers have been flawless. =A0Quantum theoretical<=
br>
levels of self-noise, no measurable distortion (on very high end test
equipment), and rock solid reliability even in educational settings.
Again I repeat=
.=A0 You haven't tested enough then.=A0 All of the equipment I mentione=
d have been sold in the last 10 years, and extends far beyond just their mi=
xers.=A0 Yes some of their equipment is good, much more in my experience is=
bad.
=A0

Behringer products, from the past six years or so, have little if any=

internal
resemblance to the competition. =A0Different chips, different circuits, and=

very clever original internal layouts. =A0On the other hand, the internals<=
br>
of most of their competitors looks pretty much the same - standard
off-the-shelf IC's, pots built into the circuit boards, capacitors of t=
he
day, etc.

Yes they are better lately, =
but it does not, in my opinion, excuse past missteps of that magnitude.=A0 =
Of course the line you were replying to had nothing to do with internal boa=
rd layout and was in response to your comment about marketing.
And no, producets from other manufacturers don't all loo=
k the same internally in my experience.=A0 For example there is a huge diff=
erence between a Mackie console at 24 channels and A&H, easily replacea=
ble channel strips for one thing.=A0 Similar for a Soundcraft, etc.=A0 Even=
those other manufacturers that go for single board construction looks diff=
erent in my experience.
=A0I'm not actually=
a fan but I think a lot of people round here make a big
deal out of Behringer products which doesn't meet the experience we hav=
e
on this side of the pond of using them. However it may just be that we get<=
br>
better quality Behringer products on our side of the pond. =A0Maybe it'=
s a
supply chain issue or maybe it's something to do with the stockists.
I think it is just you are either exce=
edingly lucky, or very limited selection of their hardware honestly. My exp=
erience has been mirrored by many professional audio engineers with a large=
selection of their products.=A0 Again not all their products are horrible,=
some have very good sound for instance, but in all cases if I buy one I am=
buying two for when it breaks, and also in all cases I would much rather s=
pend a little more to get something I don't have to worry about that on=
.
=A0
Anyway I don't sell mass manufactured audio hardware in a chain of stor=
es
so I don't have the stats to say if Behringer products have a higher
failure rate or return rate than other manufacturers.

I know of some of the larg=
er professional audio distributors in the US that used to carry Behringer, =
and stopped (In at least the case of one which is one of the largest in the=
past 5 years) due to the amount of support requests and returns they had o=
n them.=A0 Mind you most of the places I go through also end up providing a=
t least limited support on whatever they sell as well because they develop =
relationships with the people they deal with, and want to make sure they se=
ll what is going to fit their needs.=A0 In the case of that distributor it =
looks like they are starting to try them again, this is a very recent devel=
opment for them, within the past year or so.=A0 I would be curious to have =
a conversation with one of the reps I deal with there (Depending on whether=
I am buying for myself, or one of the several companies I buy for determin=
es which rep I deal with) to see what the reasoning is there.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Seablade

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Messages in current thread:
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Dec 22, 9:35 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., John Murphy, (Sun Dec 23, 3:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Dec 23, 10:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Florian Faber, (Sun Dec 23, 5:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ben Bell, (Sun Dec 23, 3:07 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Dec 23, 10:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Dec 23, 10:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Joe Hartley, (Mon Dec 24, 3:22 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Patrick Shirkey, (Mon Dec 24, 9:10 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 2:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Patrick Shirkey, (Mon Dec 24, 3:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ben Bell, (Mon Dec 24, 4:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 4:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Dec 26, 11:22 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Dec 26, 4:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Arnold Krille, (Tue Dec 25, 11:02 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Tue Dec 25, 11:55 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Arnold Krille, (Tue Dec 25, 12:04 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Paul Davis, (Mon Dec 24, 4:32 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Dec 24, 5:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Brent Busby, (Mon Dec 24, 4:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Moshe Werner, (Mon Dec 24, 9:34 am)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Monty Montgomery, (Sun Dec 23, 11:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Dec 24, 2:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] Pro Audio? OT rant., Ralf Mardorf, (Sun Dec 23, 11:10 pm)