Re: [LAU] Envy24Control is missing the Analog Volume tab - need guidance...

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To: <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Monday, November 5, 2012 - 10:16 pm

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On November 5, 2012 04:06:34 PM you wrote:

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Tim E. Real wrote:

On November 5, 2012 06:59:12 AM you wrote:

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:19 AM, Tim E. Real wrote:

His converters are external. Does ALSA know how to work with
such converters? I'll read a bit more tomorrow. I bet some better answers
will appear here though...

external converters are invisible to ALSA, just as they are to CoreAudio or
any other audio API. they exist on the "far side" of the device being
controlled by the driver, and only exist as far as the driver is concerned in
an indirect sense - they might control word clock-driven sample rate, for
example.

Thanks Paul.
Wow that's a bummer. No external converters?

i use(d to use) them all the time (they died and are currently in a repair
queue). there's absolutely no problem with external converters.

Is there no mechanism to set the converter levels other than hard-coded hacks?

i think you're confused tim. external converters generally have no controls at
all. they are hardware boxes with a few switches here and there. there are
often no levels to set, and if there are, its under h/w control (and/or
physical alteration as is the case with my tango24's)

Could this be solved be someone writing a userspace app to do it,
or is this more of a core ALSA problem which would need wider fixing?

there is no problem to fix. computer OS drivers do not get to reach "beyond"
the devices they control to toggle parameters on unknown devices that may or
may not actually exist. its that simple. my RME device driver has no idea what
type of converters i am using, and no reason to do so. this is what protocols
are for :)

Are you talking about straight converters with either no, or just local
level controls, aka regular old SPDIF converters? Sure, I understand.

>From the website:

ADC&DAC2000 external rack uses AKM AK4524 ADC/DAC (24bit/96kHz, 100dB S/N
ratio a-weighted) converters on all stereo inputs and outputs

The chip's datasheet says it has digital output attenuators and
input gain attenuators.
So there needs to be a way to set their digital levels, at very
least initialize them - which I know with my card and a fresh install of
some distro always start out at zero. I think that's the poster's problem.

This is what the analog section of the Envy24 and Mudita24 mixer apps
are supposed to show - but I think only if the chip is on-board.
I thought that because the chip is not on the card, some bus can't see it
so ALSA can't see it, requiring some extra layer of communication.

I mean there's got to be a path to the chips somewhere.

Tim.

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On =
November 5, 2012 04:06:34 PM you wrote:

O=
n Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Tim E. Real <termtech@rogers.com> wrote:
O=
n November 5, 2012 06:59:12 AM you wrote:

O=
n Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:19 AM, Tim E. Real <termtech@rogers.com> wrote:
<=
br />His converters are external. Does ALSA know how to work with=
=A0such converters? I'll read a bit more tomorrow. I bet some better an=
swers=A0will appear here though...
<=
br />external converters are invisible to ALSA, just as they are to Cor=
eAudio or any other audio API. they exist on the "far side" o=
f the device being controlled by the driver, and only exist as far as t=
he driver is concerned in an indirect sense - they might control word c=
lock-driven sample rate, for example.=A0
<=
br />Thanks Paul.
W=
ow that's a bummer. No external converters?
<=
br />i use(d to use) them all the time (they died and are currently in =
a repair queue). there's absolutely no problem with external converters=
.=A0
=A0=

I=
s there no mechanism to set the converter levels other than hard-coded =
hacks?
<=
br />i think you're confused tim. external converters generally have no=
controls at all. they are hardware boxes with a few switches here and =
there. there are often no levels to set, and if there are, its under h/=
w control (and/or physical alteration as is the case with my tango24's)=

C=
ould this be solved be someone writing a userspace app to do it,
o=
r is this more of a core ALSA problem which would need wider fixing?
<=
br />there is no problem to fix. computer OS drivers do not get to reac=
h "beyond" the devices they control to toggle parameters on u=
nknown devices that may or may not actually exist. its that simple. my =
RME device driver has no idea what type of converters i am using, and n=
o reason to do so. this is what protocols are for :)
Are=
you talking about straight converters with either no, or just local
le=
vel controls, aka regular old SPDIF converters? Sure, I understand.=

From the website:

ADC&DAC2000 external rack uses AKM AK4524 ADC/DAC (24bit/96kHz, 10=
0dB S/N ratio a-weighted) converters on all stereo inputs and outputs

 
The=
chip's datasheet says it has digital output attenuators and
in=
put gain attenuators.
So =
there needs to be a way to set their digital levels, at very
le=
ast initialize them - which I know with my card and a fresh install of =

so=
me distro always start out at zero. I think that's the poster's problem=
.
 
Thi=
s is what the analog section of the Envy24 and Mudita24 mixer apps
ar=
e supposed to show - but I think only if the chip is on-board.
I t=
hought that because the chip is not on the card, some bus can't see it<=
/p>
so=
ALSA can't see it, requiring some extra layer of communication.
 
I m=
ean there's got to be a path to the chips somewhere.
 
Tim=
.
 
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Re: [LAU] Envy24Control is missing the Analog Volume tab - n..., Tim E. Real, (Mon Nov 5, 10:16 pm)