Re: [LAU] Limiters?

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To: Fons Adriaensen <fons@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Saturday, July 9, 2011 - 9:34 pm

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Well, no offence to you either but I'm tired of reading posts bringing up
the loudnesswar and automatically, without any ground at all, assumes that
as soon as you want to push the compression a bit more without it sounding
like crap you're trying to overcompress to achieve a brick-waveform and to
"measure yourself with the big boys". That's not the case with me, at all.
And having a good limiter, plus overcompressing, can do wonders for some
songs, which is exactly what I want to use it for.

I understand that you're fed up with the loudnesswar, as am I, but I think
it's just as bad to automatically atttribute overcompression as something
consequently stupid and misguided. There are uses for it aswell.

Also, some genres like electro etc. benefit greatly from being able to push
the compression a bit more, to really make elements of the song feel like
they're "in your face". Not everybody makes the same type of music.

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 09, 2011 at 06:17:55PM +0200, Gabbe Nord wrote:

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Well, no offence to you either but I'm tired of reading posts bringing =
up the loudnesswar and automatically, without any ground at all, assumes th=
at as soon as you want to push the compression a bit more without it soundi=
ng like crap you're trying to overcompress to achieve a brick-waveform =
and to "measure yourself with the big boys". That's not the c=
ase with me, at all. And having a good limiter, plus overcompressing, can d=
o wonders for some songs, which is exactly what I want to use it for.
I understand that you're fed up with the loudnesswar, as am I, but =
I think it's just as bad to automatically atttribute overcompression as=
something consequently stupid and misguided. There are uses for it aswell.=

Also, some genres like electro etc. benefit greatly from being able to =
push the compression a bit more, to really make elements of the song feel l=
ike they're "in your face". Not everybody makes the same type=
of music.
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Fons Adriae=
nsen <fons@linu=
xaudio.org
> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 09, 2011 at 06:17:55PM +0200, Gabbe Nord wrot=
e:

> I'm on a ardour 2.8.11-setup and I'm looking for the best poss=
ible limiter.

ter to
using TAP
e me
thout

Every time I read a post like this (no offense intented to the
poster), there is this desire creeping up my back to write a
decent peak limiter, or just release the things I already have.

What stops me is the simple fact that by doing that I'd be
contributing to the IMHO completely misguided and even stupid
fashion of increasing the apparent loudness of recordings by
any means, at the expense of sound quality. Simple fact is this:
if it isn't loud enough, turn up the volume. The result will be
vastly superior to what you can achieve by squeezing dynamics
to death.

Regarding ScalingLimiter, I wonder how many peope are actually
aware of what it is doing. Which is to measure the peak level
of segments delimited by zero crossings and then apply a
constant gain factor to each segment to adjust its peak level
to close to the maximum. The idea seems to be that changing gain
at a zero crossing doesn't introduce distortion. Which is wrong,
it does generate gross amounts of intermodulation distortion,
just having less HF energy than when switching gain at random
points. This makes a complete joke of whatever follows in the
reproduction chain - you could as well use the worst amplifier
(in terms of IM distortion) you can find and things wouldn't
sound any different.

Ciao,

--
FA

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] Limiters?, Gabbe Nord, (Sat Jul 9, 4:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, plutek, (Sun Jul 10, 2:48 am)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Jul 9, 9:00 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Ken Restivo, (Mon Jul 11, 5:08 am)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Roberto, (Mon Jul 11, 7:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Hartmut Noack, (Sun Jul 10, 10:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Gabbe Nord, (Sat Jul 9, 9:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Folderol, (Sat Jul 9, 9:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Julien Claassen, (Sat Jul 9, 9:21 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Jul 9, 9:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, S. Massy, (Mon Jul 11, 7:04 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Jul 11, 9:21 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Folderol, (Mon Jul 11, 7:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Arnold Krille, (Mon Jul 11, 8:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, S. Massy, (Mon Jul 11, 9:00 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Arnold Krille, (Mon Jul 11, 9:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Hartmut Noack, (Mon Jul 11, 8:33 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Folderol, (Mon Jul 11, 8:59 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, fred, (Mon Jul 11, 9:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, fred, (Mon Jul 11, 8:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Ken Restivo, (Mon Jul 11, 5:25 am)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Joe Hartley, (Mon Jul 11, 2:21 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Arnold Krille, (Sun Jul 10, 3:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Jul 10, 4:28 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Arnold Krille, (Sun Jul 10, 5:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Jul 10, 8:38 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Hartmut Noack, (Sun Jul 10, 9:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Paul Davis, (Sun Jul 10, 9:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Jeremy Jongepier, (Mon Jul 11, 6:42 am)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Ken Restivo, (Mon Jul 11, 5:30 am)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Renato, (Mon Jul 11, 10:16 am)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Paul Davis, (Mon Jul 11, 12:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Hartmut Noack, (Sun Jul 10, 10:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Julien Claassen, (Sat Jul 9, 9:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Ricardus Vincente, (Sat Jul 9, 9:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] Limiters?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Jul 9, 9:34 pm)