Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?

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To: Julien Claassen <julien@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 12:05 am

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:42:23PM +0200, Julien Claassen wrote:

News-readers like trn and slrn are also good at this.

> * Parameters are searchable (the tree-structure is searchable for node-data)

That is very important, soft cursors are nothing but woe.

> * Encourage programmers to use consistent long and short commands for the shell part

Very sensible.

>

First, to broaden the topic and make discussion easier, I would like to
adopt the terms class and object, where objects are what we want to
manipulate, and classes are groups of related objects or classes. So,
for instance, we would always have a top-level Main class, which could
contain an effects-rack class, which in turn would contain multiple
plugin classes each containing several "parameter" objects. Makes sense
so far?

A main key (could be enter) would operate on whatever is selected: a
class would be expanded or collapsed depending on its previous state,
while an object would be brought up for editing. We'd have to come up
with an extensive set of editing keys to manipulate objects, and another
set of keys to manipulate classes (e.g collapse all, collapse up two
levels, jump to next class). However, in my mind, a lot of the
navigation tedium would be rendered needless by the search function.

> * What about real menus (as in file, view, edit,...)?
I don't care much for menus: they waste my time. I think the command
interface is there to handle one-shot functions like these. (see below)

> * Can one assume, that OSC is always the easiest/fastest choice and hardcode it?
OSC is by its very nature Open, i.e there are no real definition of what
it is. Besides, there are some OSC libraries out there. A library such
as the one we are pondering should basically be there to make it
extremely useful to create front-ends for applications, some of which
might already have been in existence for a long time. I think it should
most likely limit itself to managing "objects" (like parameters) and
"actions" (load, save, reset, etc.).

> * Would the commandline mainly just echo the fullscreen tree-structure?

I think the two modes should be mutually exclusive, except where there
are strong reasons to do otherwise. The "visual" mode is well suited to
navigating large collections of objects and modifying their values in
real-time (e.g while playing, experimenting to find a new sound). The
command interface, on the other hand, is perfect for dealing with one
shot actions or defining/performing complex actions. Some examples:
:write mypatch.xiz
:read mypatch.xiz
:route LFO1 OSC1
:set polyphony 32
:set polyphony 0
:set arpeggiate 1
etc.

>

[...]
But, as various groups are collapsed at the start, it is still fairly
easy to go down the tree to the desired parameter. For instance, I'm
sure, just like me, you've configured the linux kernel often enough
through menuconfig that you know pretty well where to go if you want to
enable a certain driver. Also, a sufficiently powerful search feature
would eliminate much of the need to "poke around" for something.

>

I really don't feel we have any need for menus if we have a command
interface. But if you really want one, go ahead. :)

>

I thought of something similar yesterday, but I doubt it would be very
efficient.

> This would make some thing a little longer perhaps, but very

I'm just not sure what the point would be if one could simply hit slash
and type "filter reso", hit enter, and be immediately positioned on the
right parameter. The only benefit I can think of would be if one wanted
to assign a value to multiple controls, as in:
:set detune OSC[23] 5

>

A pager is always a good idea, also the ability to pipe to external
commands and back.

>

This is a very interesting discussion. I had never thought in terms of
interface design before and what works for me or doesn't. It's also
interesting to see the difference among users.

Cheers,
S.M.
--
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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Fri Apr 15, 10:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, M Watts, (Sat Apr 16, 10:52 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Joel Roth, (Sat Apr 16, 2:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Sat Apr 16, 11:17 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Sat Apr 16, 8:57 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Sat Apr 16, 7:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Sun Apr 17, 3:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Sun Apr 17, 4:32 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Mon Apr 18, 12:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Tue Apr 19, 7:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Tue Apr 19, 12:16 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Tue Apr 19, 4:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Tue Apr 19, 8:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Tue Apr 19, 8:10 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Tue Apr 19, 10:07 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Tue Apr 19, 10:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Tue Apr 19, 11:35 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Wed Apr 20, 8:49 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Paul Davis, (Wed Apr 20, 12:24 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Wed Apr 20, 1:01 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Wed Apr 20, 8:54 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Wed Apr 20, 7:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Wed Apr 20, 8:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Thu Apr 21, 2:19 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 21, 9:26 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri Apr 29, 5:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri Apr 29, 11:04 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Tue May 3, 8:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Tue May 3, 8:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Mon May 2, 1:38 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Mon May 2, 2:54 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu May 5, 11:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Fri May 6, 11:19 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri May 6, 11:45 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri May 6, 9:49 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri May 6, 10:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Paul Davis, (Fri Apr 29, 5:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri Apr 29, 5:59 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri Apr 29, 7:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Paul Davis, (Fri Apr 29, 7:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri Apr 29, 8:28 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Paul Davis, (Fri Apr 29, 8:38 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri Apr 29, 9:33 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Mon May 2, 1:55 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Mon May 2, 2:45 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Tue May 3, 8:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Tue May 3, 8:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Tue May 3, 8:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Wed May 4, 12:18 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Wed May 4, 9:02 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Wed May 4, 1:52 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Wed May 4, 3:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Sun May 8, 4:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Paul Davis, (Wed May 4, 2:00 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Wed May 4, 1:38 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Paul Davis, (Wed May 4, 1:54 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Wed May 4, 6:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Wed May 4, 6:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Wed May 4, 2:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Thu May 5, 1:53 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Paul Davis, (Thu May 5, 2:00 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Tue May 3, 9:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 21, 7:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Thu Apr 21, 12:05 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 21, 8:40 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Thu Apr 21, 10:18 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 21, 11:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 21, 11:00 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, david, (Thu Apr 21, 8:19 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 21, 9:28 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Arnold Krille, (Thu Apr 21, 11:04 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Thu Apr 21, 10:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Arnold Krille, (Thu Apr 21, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 21, 10:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Wed Apr 27, 8:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Wed Apr 27, 9:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Thu Apr 28, 3:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 28, 5:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Thu Apr 28, 8:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Fri Apr 29, 7:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri Apr 29, 10:52 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Folderol, (Thu Apr 28, 8:56 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Thu Apr 28, 8:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, david, (Thu Apr 28, 8:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Thu Apr 28, 2:53 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 28, 8:14 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Fri Apr 22, 2:34 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Cedric Roux, (Fri Apr 22, 7:22 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Fri Apr 22, 8:13 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Fri Apr 22, 2:26 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Paul Davis, (Fri Apr 22, 1:24 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Fri Apr 22, 10:44 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Sat Apr 23, 7:43 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Sat Apr 23, 12:21 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Sat Apr 23, 7:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, david, (Thu Apr 21, 7:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 21, 7:14 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Folderol, (Thu Apr 21, 7:32 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Thu Apr 21, 10:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Thu Apr 21, 7:57 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, david, (Fri Apr 22, 6:29 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Lieven Moors, (Thu Apr 21, 1:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Folderol, (Thu Apr 21, 8:31 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Wed Apr 20, 7:39 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Folderol, (Tue Apr 19, 8:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, linuxdsp, (Mon Apr 18, 12:28 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Mon Apr 18, 5:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Mon Apr 18, 6:13 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Folderol, (Mon Apr 18, 7:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Mon Apr 18, 9:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, david, (Tue Apr 19, 8:44 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Tue Apr 19, 7:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, david, (Tue Apr 19, 8:05 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Tue Apr 19, 10:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Mon Apr 18, 9:06 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Mon Apr 18, 1:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S C Rigler, (Mon Apr 18, 2:07 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Sat Apr 16, 11:20 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Julien Claassen, (Sat Apr 16, 11:27 am)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, S. Massy, (Sat Apr 16, 7:28 pm)
Re: [LAU] Editing zynadsuxfx/yoshimi patches?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Sun Apr 17, 11:06 am)