Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music

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From: <fons@...>
To: <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010 - 12:25 pm

On Sat, Sep 04, 2010 at 02:22:17AM -0700, Patrick Shirkey wrote:

> So, your argument against the possibility of Pop music and mass media

Not only a misnomer. It's wrong on two accounts: the mechanism used, and
where the responsability for the result is to be placed.

We humans constantly rationalise our actions, usually a posteriori - after
the facts. We need to do this in order to maintain our self-esteem and
dignity - the idea that we are doing things that make no sense to even
ourselves is quite unsupportable for almost all of us.

This is how marketing works: you offer a product, service, or in politics
an opinion, *AND* provide or at least suggest a rationalisation for accep-
ting the offer. The product can be crap, the opionion without any base, and
the rationalisation completely bogus - if the target audience doesn't take
the trouble to examine them critically it will work. For some people the
rationalisation doesn't need to be of any value at all: it can be as simple
as some 'us vs. them' argument often used in politics, or just 'popularity'.

So while we *do* have impulses to behave in a very sexual way, or be
violent, and those do indeed come from 'deep inside' and belong to the
unconscious in the Freudian sense, it is not those that are being
manipulated, but in general it is the rationalisation process which
clearly does *not* belong the the unconscious - not even if many of our
rationalisations are in fact just excuses.

This also means that the responsability for accepting any product and
the rationalisation for doing so lies with those who do accept it. You
may think, and I agree, that trying to lure people into doing certain
things is not nice, but it is just an attempt - the final decision is
made by the target, not by the 'manipulator'.

> Are you saying we can't be brain washed?

No. Brainwashing is a completely different process, it always involves
some form of physical restraint without wich we would not accept to
undergo it.

Ciao,

--
FA

There are three of them, and Alleline.

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Messages in current thread:
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Wed Sep 1, 10:34 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 6:52 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Wed Sep 8, 11:46 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 10, 5:43 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hakan Koseoglu, (Thu Sep 2, 7:02 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 7:17 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Wed Sep 1, 11:10 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Joel Roth, (Wed Sep 1, 6:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Wed Sep 1, 8:06 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Jeremy Jongepier, (Thu Sep 2, 1:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Wed Sep 1, 11:02 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 16, 7:12 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Sep 1, 1:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Sat Sep 4, 9:22 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, , (Sat Sep 4, 12:25 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Tue Sep 7, 5:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Wed Sep 8, 6:04 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Thu Sep 9, 4:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 9, 10:44 pm)
[LAU] , Florent Berthaut, (Fri Sep 10, 10:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Daniel Roviriego, (Thu Sep 16, 3:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Florent Berthaut, (Thu Sep 16, 4:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Dave Phillips, (Thu Sep 16, 4:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Folderol, (Wed Sep 15, 7:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Florent Berthaut, (Wed Sep 15, 8:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Jorge Salgueiro, (Wed Sep 15, 8:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Florent Berthaut, (Wed Sep 15, 8:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Hartmut Noack, (Thu Sep 16, 7:47 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Gwenhwyfaer, (Wed Sep 8, 10:24 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Wed Sep 8, 11:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Wed Sep 8, 6:15 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Wed Sep 8, 6:28 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Stephen Stubbs, (Sat Sep 4, 7:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 1:15 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 9, 5:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 10, 5:45 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Fri Sep 10, 12:33 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 10, 5:47 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Fri Sep 10, 6:23 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Sep 1, 12:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Wed Sep 1, 11:19 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Wed Sep 1, 9:21 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Wed Sep 1, 8:27 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 6:47 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Thu Sep 2, 1:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Sat Sep 4, 9:49 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Sat Sep 4, 4:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 3, 5:07 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Sat Sep 4, 4:22 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Paul Davis, (Wed Sep 1, 10:44 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 8:21 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 6:40 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Thu Sep 2, 7:59 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Wed Sep 1, 11:53 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 12:15 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Wed Sep 1, 12:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 7:00 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hakan Koseoglu, (Thu Sep 2, 7:06 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 7:24 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Wed Sep 8, 11:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 12:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Wed Sep 1, 1:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 1:13 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 7:13 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Thu Sep 2, 8:55 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 3, 4:59 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Fri Sep 3, 7:25 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 6:40 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Fri Sep 3, 12:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 6:52 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Fri Sep 3, 12:59 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 9, 12:05 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Thu Sep 9, 10:26 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 7:04 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Arvind Venkatasubramanian..., (Fri Sep 3, 1:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 7:16 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 7:11 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Sat Sep 4, 7:16 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Sat Sep 4, 8:10 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 8:28 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Sat Sep 4, 11:37 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sun Sep 5, 12:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 7:50 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 8:05 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Sat Sep 4, 8:04 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 16, 7:03 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 17, 8:20 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 9:32 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Sat Sep 4, 9:47 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 10:26 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Sat Sep 4, 10:42 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sun Sep 5, 11:55 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Fri Sep 3, 2:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Arvind Venkatasubramanian..., (Fri Sep 3, 2:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Fri Sep 3, 3:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 9, 12:01 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Fri Sep 3, 5:12 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 3, 5:52 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Fri Sep 3, 6:22 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 6:32 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Dave Phillips, (Wed Sep 1, 1:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 1:59 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, James Morris, (Wed Sep 1, 12:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Wed Sep 1, 7:37 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Philipp √úberbacher, (Wed Sep 1, 8:50 am)