Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music

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To: Louigi Verona <louigi.verona@...>
Cc: linux-audio-user <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010 - 8:10 am

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On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Louigi Verona wrote:

> There are two voices I hear here vis-a-vis Bach:

Louigi:

Sorry if something I said offended you. Actually I was/am really more
interested in the original discussion viz. music can be used to affect
people in ways that they may not be aware of. To which I wanted to add this
that the intrinsic musical content -- such as tunings -- may be more
important (because less noticed) than more extra-musical elements like
lyrics, female-moaning sounds etc.

If someone says tunings are irrelevant I can only conclude he has only ever
heard equal temperament.
Unfortunately this discussion is particularly pointless on email (without an
audio-demo...)
Still let me try a theoretical summary:

1. Anyone (who is not tone-deaf) can distinguish one note from another say
on the piano ie 100 cents
2. At the other extreme there must be a least count to the sounds that any
human in any way can distinguish -- let us say 1/1000th cent.

These two figures 100 cents, 1/1000th cent set the bounds of the human's
hearing-ability 'least-count'.

Now somewhere in between these two figures we begin to distinguish sounds.
Let us for example say that I can distinguish 15 cents but not 2. But does
that mean that my (subconscious) reactions say as measured by breathing,
heartrate, skin-conductivity etc are not affected below 15 cents?

This is the open question.

If it is somewhere between 15 cents and 1/1000th cent then that is a
danger-zone wherein machiavellian person can manipulate me in ways that I am
not aware of.

Coming back to Bach: If he was not interested in tunings he would not have
written the Well Tempered clavier.

If he was interested in promoting equal temperament he would have called it
the Equal tempered Clavier

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On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Louigi =
Verona <lou=
igi.verona@gmail.com
> wrote:

There are two voices I hear here vis-a-vis Bach:
1. Art for art's sake -- the romantic idea<=
br>Why I don't like such unstructured discussions is because in the=
end it is all labelled by some generic stereotypes and misunderstood compl=
etely. If everything what I was telling you believe falls into some romanti=
c idea of art for art's sake then obviously I wasted my time.

L.V.Louigi:Sorry if someth=
ing I said offended you. Actually I was/am really more interested in the or=
iginal discussion viz. music can be used to affect people in ways that they=
may not be aware of. To which I wanted to add this that the intrinsic musi=
cal content -- such as tunings -- may be more important (because less notic=
ed) than more extra-musical elements like lyrics, female-moaning sounds etc=
.
If someone says tunings are irrelevant I can only conclude he has only =
ever heard equal temperament.Unfortunately this discussion is particula=
rly pointless on email (without an audio-demo...)Still let me try a the=
oretical summary:
1. Anyone (who is not tone-deaf) can distinguish one note from another =
say on the piano ie 100 cents2. At the other extreme there must be a le=
ast count to the sounds that any human in any way can distinguish -- let us=
say 1/1000th cent.
These two figures 100 cents, 1/1000th cent set the bounds of the human&=
#39;s hearing-ability 'least-count'.Now somewhere in betwee=
n these two figures we begin to distinguish sounds. Let us for example say =
that I can distinguish 15 cents but not 2.=A0 But does that mean that my (s=
ubconscious) reactions say as measured by breathing, heartrate, skin-conduc=
tivity etc are not affected below 15 cents?
This is the open question.If it is somewhere between 15 cents a=
nd 1/1000th cent then that is a danger-zone wherein machiavellian person ca=
n manipulate me in ways that I am not aware of.Coming back to Bach:=
If he was not interested in tunings he would not have written the Well Tem=
pered clavier.
If he was interested in promoting equal temperament he would have calle=
d it the Equal tempered Clavier

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Messages in current thread:
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Wed Sep 1, 10:34 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 6:52 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Wed Sep 8, 11:46 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 10, 5:43 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hakan Koseoglu, (Thu Sep 2, 7:02 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 7:17 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Wed Sep 1, 11:10 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Joel Roth, (Wed Sep 1, 6:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Wed Sep 1, 8:06 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Jeremy Jongepier, (Thu Sep 2, 1:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Wed Sep 1, 11:02 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 16, 7:12 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Sep 1, 1:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Sat Sep 4, 9:22 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Tue Sep 7, 5:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Wed Sep 8, 6:04 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Thu Sep 9, 4:37 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 9, 10:44 pm)
[LAU] , Florent Berthaut, (Fri Sep 10, 10:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Daniel Roviriego, (Thu Sep 16, 3:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Florent Berthaut, (Thu Sep 16, 4:12 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Dave Phillips, (Thu Sep 16, 4:23 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Folderol, (Wed Sep 15, 7:34 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Florent Berthaut, (Wed Sep 15, 8:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Jorge Salgueiro, (Wed Sep 15, 8:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Florent Berthaut, (Wed Sep 15, 8:42 pm)
Re: [LAU] , Hartmut Noack, (Thu Sep 16, 7:47 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Gwenhwyfaer, (Wed Sep 8, 10:24 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Wed Sep 8, 11:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Wed Sep 8, 6:15 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Wed Sep 8, 6:28 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Stephen Stubbs, (Sat Sep 4, 7:17 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 1:15 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 9, 5:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 10, 5:45 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Fri Sep 10, 12:33 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 10, 5:47 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Fri Sep 10, 6:23 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Sep 1, 12:19 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Wed Sep 1, 11:19 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Wed Sep 1, 9:21 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Wed Sep 1, 8:27 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 6:47 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Thu Sep 2, 1:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Patrick Shirkey, (Sat Sep 4, 9:49 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Sat Sep 4, 4:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 3, 5:07 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hartmut Noack, (Sat Sep 4, 4:22 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Paul Davis, (Wed Sep 1, 10:44 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 8:21 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 6:40 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Thu Sep 2, 7:59 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Wed Sep 1, 11:53 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 12:15 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Wed Sep 1, 12:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 7:00 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Hakan Koseoglu, (Thu Sep 2, 7:06 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 7:24 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Wed Sep 8, 11:55 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 12:36 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Wed Sep 1, 1:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 1:13 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Thu Sep 2, 7:13 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Thu Sep 2, 8:55 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 3, 4:59 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Fri Sep 3, 7:25 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 6:40 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Fri Sep 3, 12:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 6:52 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Fri Sep 3, 12:59 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 9, 12:05 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, David Santamauro, (Thu Sep 9, 10:26 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 7:04 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Arvind Venkatasubramanian..., (Fri Sep 3, 1:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 7:16 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 7:11 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Sat Sep 4, 7:16 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Sat Sep 4, 8:10 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 8:28 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Rustom Mody, (Sat Sep 4, 11:37 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sun Sep 5, 12:03 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 7:50 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 8:05 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Sat Sep 4, 8:04 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 16, 7:03 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 17, 8:20 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 9:32 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Sat Sep 4, 9:47 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 10:26 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Sat Sep 4, 10:42 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sun Sep 5, 11:55 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Fri Sep 3, 2:26 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Arvind Venkatasubramanian..., (Fri Sep 3, 2:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Brent Busby, (Fri Sep 3, 3:30 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Ken Restivo, (Thu Sep 9, 12:01 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Fri Sep 3, 5:12 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Fri Sep 3, 5:52 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Fri Sep 3, 6:22 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Sat Sep 4, 6:32 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Dave Phillips, (Wed Sep 1, 1:40 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Louigi Verona, (Wed Sep 1, 1:59 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, James Morris, (Wed Sep 1, 12:02 pm)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, david, (Wed Sep 1, 7:37 am)
Re: [LAU] re Subconscious Affecting Music, Philipp √úberbacher, (Wed Sep 1, 8:50 am)