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On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 16:36:01 +0400

Louigi Verona  wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:26 PM, David Santamauro

quoted text
>  > wrote:

>

> > On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 16:15:53 +0400

> > Louigi Verona  wrote:

> >

> > > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:49 PM, David Santamauro

> > >  > > > wrote:

> > >

> > > > On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 12:21:27 +0400

> > > > Louigi Verona  wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > don't. But commercial art is not art and those products are

> > > > > not worth anybody's attention. Even the best of them.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Really?

> > > >

> > > > So any commissioned work by the great masters throughout the

> > > > ages is not worth attention? I beg to differ.

> > > >

> > > > David

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Why do you rephrase me? I did not say anything about commissioned

> > > works by great masters.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > fair enough. My point is simply that such a broad stroke as

> > "commercial art is not art" is just your opinion (which you are

> > entitled) but clearly there are many magnificent works that have

> > been created for the masses in search of fame and fortune that are

> > worthy of attention.

> >

> > Most great composers were/are performers that needed to display

> > their virtuosity in order to "break into the scene", Bach, Mozart

> > and Beethoven being no exceptions.

> >

> > Are we to write off these works and pay them no attention?

> >

> > David

> >

> >

>

> Let's say it was broad just to make a point. Also it is exceedingly

> difficult to briefly explain why I do not believe Bach to search for

> fame or money with music. I seriously, silly me, believe that music

> to him was something else than means to make money or break into the

> scene.

Bach wasn't exactly striving for fame, but he was surely trying to

impress in order to secure a position that would allow him to provide

for a family doing what he loved to do.
The mentality changed through the course of the 18th century moving

away from simply court-appointed "secure positions" to self-supporting

composers accepting commissions and, yes, in order to get more

commissions, these composers strove for fame -- there is much

literature on the subject and although I've been schooled many years in

music history, theory and composition, there are many others who can

explain this change better than I. But it is this change that was

pivotal.
> But today a lot of people cannot imagine this kind of a

quoted text
> mindset and today it is perfectly normal to think that art for art's

> sake is perfection which is unrealistic and which will make musician

> "starve".

True, but isn't what I mentioned above still something that

artists strive for? ("trying to impress in order to secure a position

that would allow him to provide for a family doing what he loved to

do"). Granted, this is a simplistic view, but a starving artist will

die of starvation. An artist that makes enough money will continue to

create -- a fact of life traceable to the ideas of Darwin, I'm afraid.
> Today society and mindsets of people are very different. To

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> get a feel of what I mean you can compare the atmosphere of a

> commercial company and the atmosphere of a scientific institute.

> Although, come to think of it, a lot of western universities are very

> much applied money making science nowadays.

So maybe the commercial company wants fortune, but the academics surely

want fame ... which, of course, translates to money as the more famous

a university is, the more students want to attend, the more government

grants for research it will receive, usw.
>

quoted text
> Yeah, it is just how I see it. I am not saying it is degradation

> necessarily, but I do believe that there is certain lacking of

> sincerity and non-financial motivation in professional fields in

> general, which makes a lot of really talented people stay in amateur

> scenes.

Again, if the amateur scene is providing enough to allow the artist to

continue creating, I see nothing wrong with it.
David
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