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On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Hartmut Noack  wrote:
>

quoted text
> All 3: wrong if you really wanted to see the show. If it would be the

> Rolling Stones I would sneak in if I can, out of couriosity but I would not

> complain, if someone would come and throw me out. If I want to see a

> concert, I pay for it. If the venue/artist charges too much money for my

> taste I loose my interest in the concert...

>

So, it wrong but you'd do it anyway as long as what, no one gets hurt?

I suspect you wouldn't spray the guard at the door with anything that

knocked him out for 30 seconds, or you wouldn't hire a very pretty

girl to distract him so he wasn't watching the entry.
Does the penalty matter? If they throw you out then you'd sneak in,

but if they break your hand then you wouldn't?
Penalties aren't really fair to talk about if we're just discussing right/wrong.
>> 4) A friend purchases a DVD of a movie that cost $1M to make but

quoted text
>> brought in B at the box office. You rip a copy. Right or wrong.

>> 5) A friend purchases a DVD of a movie that cost B to make but

>> brought in M at the box office. You rip a copy. Right or wrong?

>

> Both acceptable. If "a friend" is someone from my hood there is nothing

> wrong in that. It is not illegal in Germany to make up to 6 private copies

> and if it would be illegal it would still be OK and the law would be subject

> to be changed. Because helping a neighbor is more important for the

> civilisation than keeping virtual properties untouched. And by doing this

> you do not establish a world-wide anonymous infrastructure to distribute

> copies to people, you dont know.

> This may sound like cheap semantics but it is not.

>

OK - There are local norms which may change the answers to some extent

around the world. That's cool, although I'd ask what Germany means by

a 'private copy'. Even our U.S. DRM laws allow one copy of digital

material for 'archival purposes' so TTBOMK I'm allowed to copy my DVD

for safe keeping. However I'm not (to the best of my knowledge)

allowed to loan out the copy. Only the original.
So, it's OK for _any_ individual to break _any_ law which _that_

individual deems it 'should be changed'?
How did we 'help the neighbor' in this case? Couldn't your friend have

simply loaned you the DVD, you watch it and give it back when you're

done?
I very much like your picture of 'virtual properties'. That's worth

some extra thought.
>> 6) Some bad guys rob a bank but in fleeing the scene of the crime

quoted text
>> throw money out the window to put people in the way of the police

>> chasing them. You are standing on the sidewalk when 00 lands at

>> your feet. You pick it up and don't turn it in. Right or wrong?

>>

>> 7) Some bad guys rob a bank but in fleeing the scene of the crime

>> throw money out the window to put people in the way of the police

>> chasing them. You are standing on the sidewalk when 00 lands at

>> your feet. It is raining and you see lots of money getting washed down

>> the storm drain where it will likely never be found. You pick it up

>> and don't turn it in. Right or wrong?

>

> Both wrong. Everybody knows, that most banks are semi-criminal, antisocial

> organisations. They are, because they exist in a system that is utterly

> broken -- the same as broken as ASCAP and GEMA. So at first glance it looks

> like: take the darn money and run! And this idea has some appeal to me too.

> But in the end: if I take the money and run, I am not that much better than

> the capitalist crooks that live by the rule: "take what you can, by any

> means, allways, never give anything back!". This antisocial

> quasi-darwininistic philosophy is exactly the very foundation of most of the

> problems, we have today.

> And on the other hand it would feel just great to see the faces if I'd walk

> into the bank to return my catch. A person, they do not trust enough to hand

> out a credit-card that pushes 1000,- at the table saying: "Take it, its

> yours. I found it in the gutter the other day, right after the robbery."

> Maybe I would keep the money anyway - it depends on the actual state of my

> own account. But I would feel a bit like corrupted, if I would keep it....

>

> best regs

>

> HZN

I hadn't thought of the parallels with credit cards. Interesting.
Thanks very much for the answers!
Cheers,

Mark

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