Subject: [LAU] Fwd: What Live is about (was: Re: ableton live in vmware)

From: Daniel Roviriego <danifernando@...> · Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 - 1:13 pm

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"...the small world of Linux audio. The progress goes on, and now it is

2009."
I feel sorry for that kind of imperialist/progessist thinking..You are

right, we are in 2009 and some thinking should be different nowadays,

progress not always bring good things, if you can tell the difference

between good and bad..
Some vague third world thoughts
Daniel D2 - Brazil
2009/9/1 Michael Bohle 
> ----- original Nachricht --------

quoted text>

> Betreff: [LAU] What Live is about (was: Re: ableton live in vmware)

> Gesendet: Di, 01. Sep 2009

> Von: Thorsten Wilms

>

> > On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 20:56 -0400, Brett McCoy wrote:

> >

> > > I have to admit complete ignorance here, but what is it about Live

> > > that makes it advantageous over DAWs like Ardour, Reaper, Sonar, Pro

> > > Tools, etc? Is it primarily loop/clip/synth based rather than a hard

> > > disk recorder/mixer like a traditional DAW?

> >

> > My knowledge is based on reading about it in magazines early on and much

> > later using the trial version for a bit.

> >

> > When it came out, using software for live performance was seen as novel

> > idea (there might have been an "underground" scene thinking

> > differently).

> >

> > The minimalistic graphics optimized for clearness were a revelation.

> > Dialogs are avoided, it's all in one window.

> >

> > AFAIK it allows tempo changes and immediately stretches/shrinks all

> > audio to fit. Sony Acid might have been earlier with that.

> > You can also add markers on clips and then move these markers and the

> > material between markers will be stretched/shrunken to accommodate. The

> > version I tried would do so "only" linearly :)

> >

> > I think the central new concept was having a matrix view, where you have

> > columns for tracks/instruments and rows for "Scenes".

> > Have a look at:

> > http://digisound.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/3-big-rocker.jpg

> > All those rectangles with play symbols are patterns.

> > If you look down the "Master" column, it should become clear what scenes

> > are about. Note that you can trigger any of the patterns any time.

> > There's a sync feature that can make sure patterns will be started on

> > the beat/next-measure.

> >

> > There's also a "traditional" arrangement view:

> >

> http://www.kaosaudio.com/images/software/ableton-live-7-le-arrangement.p...

> >

> > Nowadays there's a collection of deeply integrated synth "plugins".

> >

> >

> > GUI-wise, you could always add such a matrix to an existing

> > DAW/sequencer (not a small project, of course). But you need a backend

> > that can play any pattern any time, with a sync-to-beat trigger feature.

> > And live time stretching.

> >

> > So, none of the linux audio apps comes even close.

> > A set of separate tools can never be a replacement (except with a

> > not-seen-before sophisticated level of optional integration, perhaps).

> >

> > People can talk about the real or perceived shortcomings of linux audio

> > tools all day. Doesn't change a thing. The vague and sometimes silly

> > comparisons and the very foggy ideas what some commercial apps actually

> > offer are damn frustrating. Would surprise me to read something *new*.

> >

>

> Thank you for this. It makes me crazy when I read "You don't need fancy

> apps like this, hydrogen is good enough" or "sooperlooper do the job".

>

> I use AL because it is a masterpiece of music software and it fits my needs

> for a creative workflow. It is the state of art today and contemporary

> technology for musicians. It is no hype, it is an answer for the question:

> How you can make music without touching the limits of software.

>

> When I read "just put together a few apps on Linux with JACK  and you have

> the same" it make me clear that most of the Linux fanboys here are never

> seen or used modern software and they don't know what they are talking

> about. Even David Philips never seen Garageband, but he talk about. It is no

> good idea to hide behind the small world of Linux audio. The progress goes

> on, and now it is 2009.

>

> Michael

>

> >

> > --

> > Thorsten Wilms

> >

> > thorwil's design for free software:

> > http://thorwil.wordpress.com/

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > Linux-audio-user mailing list

> > Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org

> > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user

> >

>

> --- original Nachricht Ende ----

>

> _______________________________________________

> Linux-audio-user mailing list

> Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org

> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user

>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"...the small world of Linux audio. The=

 progress goes on, and now it is 2009."
I feel sorry for that kind of imperialist/progessist thinking..You are righ=

t, we are in 2009 and some thinking should be different nowadays, progress =

not always bring good things, if you can tell the difference between good a=

nd bad..
Some vague third world thoughtsDaniel D2 - Brazil2009/9/1 Michael Bohle <opendaw@jacklab.org=

quoted text>
----- original Nachricht --------
Betreff: [LAU] What Live is about (was: Re: ableton live in vmware)

Gesendet: Di, 01. Sep 2009

Von: Thorsten Wilms<t_w_@freenet.de>
> On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 20:56 -0400, Brett McCoy wrote:

quoted text>

> > I have to admit complete ignorance here, but what is it about Liv=

e

quoted text> > that makes it advantageous over DAWs like Ardour, Reaper, Sonar, =

Pro

quoted text> > Tools, etc? Is it primarily loop/clip/synth based rather than a h=

ard

quoted text> > disk recorder/mixer like a traditional DAW?

>

> My knowledge is based on reading about it in magazines early on and mu=

ch

quoted text> later using the trial version for a bit.

>

> When it came out, using software for live performance was seen as nove=

l

quoted text> idea (there might have been an "underground" scene thinking<=

br>

quoted text> differently).

>

> The minimalistic graphics optimized for clearness were a re=

velation.

quoted text> Dialogs are avoided, it's all in one window.

>

> AFAIK it allows tempo changes and immediately stretches/shrinks all

> audio to fit. Sony Acid might have been earlier with that.

> You can also add markers on clips and then move these markers and the<=

br>

quoted text> material between markers will be stretched/shrunken to accommodate. Th=

e

quoted text> version I tried would do so "only" linearly :)

>

> I think the central new concept was having a matrix view, where you ha=

ve

quoted text> columns for tracks/instruments and rows for "Scenes".

> Have a look at:

> http://digisound.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/3-big-ro=

cker.jpg

quoted text> All those rectangles with play symbols are patterns.

> If you look down the "Master" column, it should become clear=

 what scenes

quoted text> are about. Note that you can trigger any of the patterns any time.

> There's a sync feature that can make sure patterns will be started=

 on

quoted text> the beat/next-measure.

>

> There's also a "traditional" arrangement view=

:

quoted text> http://www.kaosaudio.com/images/software=

/ableton-live-7-le-arrangement.png

quoted text>

> Nowadays there's a collection of deeply integrated synth "plu=

gins".

quoted text>

>

> GUI-wise, you could always add such a matrix to an existing=
> DAW/sequencer (not a small project, of course). But you need a b=

ackend

quoted text> that can play any pattern any time, with a sync-to-beat trigger f=

eature.

quoted text> And live time stretching.

>

> So, none of the linux audio apps comes even close.

> A set of separate tools can never be a replacement (except =

with a

quoted text> not-seen-before sophisticated level of optional integration, perhaps).=
>

quoted text> People can talk about the real or perceived shortcomings of=

 linux audio

quoted text> tools all day. Doesn't change a thing. The vague and sometim=

es silly

quoted text> comparisons and the very foggy ideas what some commercial apps ac=

tually

quoted text> offer are damn frustrating. Would surprise me to read something *new*.=
>
Thank you for this. It makes me crazy when I read "You don't=

 need fancy apps like this, hydrogen is good enough" or "sooperlo=

oper do the job".
I use AL because it is a masterpiece of music software and it fits my needs=

 for a creative workflow. It is the state of art today and contemporary tec=

hnology for musicians. It is no hype, it is an answer for the question: How=

 you can make music without touching the limits of software.
When I read "just put together a few apps on Linux with JACK =A0and yo=

u have the same" it make me clear that most of the Linux fanboys here =

are never seen or used modern software and they don't know what they ar=

e talking about. Even David Philips never seen Garageband, but he talk abou=

t. It is no good idea to hide behind the small world of Linux audio. The pr=

ogress goes on, and now it is 2009.
Michael
>

quoted text> --

> Thorsten Wilms

>

> thorwil's design for free software:

> http://tho=

rwil.wordpress.com/

quoted text>

> _______________________________________________

> Linux-audio-user mailing list

> Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org

> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-au=

dio-user

quoted text>
--- original Nachricht Ende ----
_______________________________________________

Linux-audio-user mailing list

=

Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org

http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-u=

ser
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