Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware)

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From: Rob <lau@...>
To: <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009 - 8:08 pm

On Monday 31 August 2009 01:27 pm, cunnilinux himself wrote:

That's exactly the same argument people were making about Linux office
applications 8 or 9 years ago, and while some may dislike their choices now
(essentially OpenOffice, Gnumeric/Abiword, Koffice and Google Docs) or find
an obscure feature missing here and there, the only ones who can't get
anything at all done with them are essentially the dimmer bulbs.

Meanwhile, back in those days, the people who claimed Linux didn't need all
those monolithic office applications espoused tools like LaTeX. There were
others, but that's the only one whose name I remember and they were all
basically the same idea, having the user insert codes into the text to tell
the processor about its structure and format during printing. Some people
referred to Emacs as a "word processor", as well. While they may very well
be technically superior in some ways to Microsoft Office or the
alternatives available to Linux (only used LaTeX once and only use emacs
for writing code), tools like LaTeX and Emacs have a hell of a learning
curve.

Ardour has a hell of a learning curve too, and is dependent upon things
like JACK and low-latency kernels. I used to have time to deal with things
like that, but it's been a long time since those days. I've never gotten a
single note recorded in Ardour. Luckily for me, there's LMMS (with inbuilt
Zyn and a bunch of soundfonts) for composition and arrangement, and
Audacity for editing and mixing, and the only thing I was unable to do when
I finally got a song done earlier this year was use a mastering compressor,
which I faked with some harmonics and a limiter. I explained my process to
a friend of mine and he basically said, "Dude, all that stuff you just
spent days on I can do in Ableton in like half an hour."

Maybe that's true, and certainly my friend is very prolific, but I've never
used Ableton so I still don't really know what I'm missing. (Of course,
what he thinks of is "Ableton" is actually Ableton plus a bunch of other
plugins, instruments and sample sets, whose cost would have been in the
five figure range if he hadn't pirated them.) But I've also been using
Linux since 1994, and exclusively since around 2002. Someone from another
operating system doesn't care about a bunch of little virtual sound boxes
connected by a bunch of little virtual cables to get everything exactly the
way they want. They want to double click on an icon and be off to the
races. They want sensible defaults. They want the equivalent of a blank
MS Word document with the cursor blinking and inviting them to type in 12-
point Times New Roman, and worry about adjusting it later.

Essentially, Ableton Live is MS Word.

I think the LMMS guys are the closest to that sort of thing now with all
their presets and the way their default project is set up (and the fact
that it actually *has* a default project), but I'm told it's still closer
to Fruityloops than Ableton. Doesn't matter to me since I haven't played
live in 21 years and I'd be okay never playing live again. I'd like the
automagical stretching and beat matching stuff I hear Ableton does. But
other people do play live and might want more of that functionality, and it
sounds to me like no current single Linux audio app is going to provide it.

If it can be provided by a number of different Linux programs, someone who
makes that kind of claim needs to write a howto and put it out there on the
web, and users who have never seen the inside of a recording booth and
never seen a bash prompt will need to be able to follow the howto without
ever taking their hands off their mice. It really doesn't matter whether
it works for people who already have a Linux solution they're happy with.
It needs to work for the people who aren't getting anything done using
Linux audio because they don't know where to start.

Rob

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Messages in current thread:
[LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), cunnilinux himself, (Mon Aug 31, 5:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Niklas Klügel, (Wed Sep 2, 1:31 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Niklas Klügel, (Thu Sep 3, 7:23 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Patrick Shirkey, (Thu Sep 3, 12:08 am)
Re: [LAU] modular audio apps and control-communication was: ..., Gabriel M. Beddingfield, (Wed Sep 2, 5:50 pm)
Re: [LAU] modular audio apps and control-communication was: ..., Gabriel M. Beddingfield, (Thu Sep 3, 3:02 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Sep 2, 3:09 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Hartmut Noack, (Mon Aug 31, 9:51 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Rui Nuno Capela, (Mon Aug 31, 10:20 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Hartmut Noack, (Tue Sep 1, 3:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Rui Nuno Capela, (Tue Sep 1, 7:33 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Paul Coccoli, (Tue Sep 1, 4:43 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Patrick Shirkey, (Tue Sep 1, 1:15 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Patrick Shirkey, (Tue Sep 1, 10:41 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Hartmut Noack, (Wed Sep 2, 3:27 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Atte Andre Jensen, (Wed Sep 2, 3:58 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Niklas Klügel, (Thu Sep 3, 7:14 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Thorsten Wilms, (Wed Sep 2, 7:44 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Brett McCoy, (Tue Sep 1, 10:47 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Grammostola Rosea, (Tue Sep 1, 7:52 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Nedko Arnaudov, (Wed Sep 2, 11:25 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Nedko Arnaudov, (Wed Sep 2, 12:52 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Brett McCoy, (Tue Sep 1, 12:56 am)
Re: [LAU] What Live is about (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Robbert Latumahina, (Tue Sep 1, 10:40 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Patrick Shirkey, (Tue Sep 1, 1:20 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Ronald Stewart, (Tue Sep 1, 1:31 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Rob, (Mon Aug 31, 8:08 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Dave Phillips, (Mon Aug 31, 10:11 pm)
Re: [LAU] back on topic (ableton-like tools for linux), Ken Restivo, (Mon Aug 31, 9:48 pm)
Re: [LAU] back on topic (ableton-like tools for linux), Patrick Shirkey, (Tue Sep 1, 2:05 am)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Atte Andre Jensen, (Mon Aug 31, 9:29 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Hartmut Noack, (Mon Aug 31, 10:01 pm)
Re: [LAU] off topic (was: Re: ableton live in vmware), Brett McCoy, (Mon Aug 31, 5:35 pm)