Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?

Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]
To: A list for linux audio users <linux-audio-user@...>
Date: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 1:47 pm

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Frank Barknecht escribió:

I'll play devil's advocate here for a second, to what extent does a
driver include such information of the hardware it "drives" that it
would be considered a trade secret to release either its source or
specifications of the hardware to build them? How much third party
technology is involved in the drivers in the first place, that would
violate *any* commercial agreements the hardware vendor may have with
other companies in terms of licensed technologies? If removed these
components from the drivers, how good their performance would be when
compared to the closed ones?

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the video card market is one heck
of a vicious business, with not only rapid development cycles, but
also a lot (and I mean a *LOT*) of cross licensed technology not to
mention a billion-dollar industry. This makes it way too complex (IMO)
and extremely difficult to have fully open source drivers, unless it
is for those considered low-end or entry-level class of cards/chips
(where numbers level in the amount of units). I'm not sure what would
be the panacea to this "problem", I for one have no problems using
closed drivers (if they will get the job done, and will allow me to
use the best hardware for the job). I do realize that if a high-end
vendor opens up their drivers, Linux users will be more than happy to
use them and there would be no problems with the GPL and other
licensing issues, but this would also mean that these drivers wouldn't
be allowed to include third-licensed technology in them.

The most obvious situation with cross-license issues and open source
video drivers has got to be the texture compression algorithms,
especially S3TC. S3TC is not free, you have to license it to be able
to implement it, and at the same time the hardware has to be compliant
with it. I some years ago had a discussion about this very issue, and
asked myself why wouldn't open source video drivers use an open
texture compression algorithm... First I thought there was no such TC
algorithm, but then I remembered 3dfx and the VSA-100 architecture
(Voodoo 4, 5). They indeed developed a TC algorithm that they made
open before they were bought up by nVidia, FXTC (not to be confused
with DXTC, which is DirectX's texture compression, a derivative of S3TC).

FXTC proved to have superior quality than S3TC, but it also required
hardware support for it (as far as I remember, prove me wrong,
please!), even if the algorithm and specification were open for anyone
to implement, no one actually did (or did they?), so my allegation was
why not use FXTC if it is open and pretty much (as much as I can
remember) anyone could implement it for open source drivers as an
alternative to S3TC? The answer is astonishingly simple: S3TC is now
the de facto standard and the default format for a LOT of textures
used in many applications and games, this would involve a massive
move, which in turn would die (as it did) because (as MS-Office) some
else made it not so nice, but bearably nice, cheaper and most of all,
first (Ok, MSO wasn't there first, but it was cheaper). Trying to
incorporate such technology at this point would be incredibly hard, I
wonder, though if it would be harder than trying to make S2TC (and
DXTC by extension) Open in turn?

At the current rate, seems like VIA and Intel are the best options for
anyone to have in terms of open source driver support, even if you
lose in performance/features, why can't we have the three: features,
performance and FREEDOM? Well, with current business models, it is
simply not going to happen. Fortunately more player are willing to
give us them three, but at baby-ant' steps.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEmU6tXM+XOp70dwoRAqhiAJ0eZUe/QlQAa8qKgCjkdiCzwoVlpQCcDgNt
9gMkP8ypcOomCg9ypFqsGLM=
=gL0I
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]

Messages in current thread:
[linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, R Parker, (Tue Jun 20, 7:52 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, tim hall, (Sat Jun 24, 10:18 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, Esben Stien, (Wed Jun 21, 12:29 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, tim hall, (Sat Jun 24, 11:53 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Sat Jun 24, 5:37 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, Frank Barknecht, (Wed Jun 21, 12:35 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, Link Swanson, (Tue Jun 20, 8:12 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, R Parker, (Tue Jun 20, 8:27 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Tue Jun 20, 8:02 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, tim hall, (Sat Jun 24, 11:03 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, Dave Robillard, (Tue Jun 20, 8:26 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, Esben Stien, (Wed Jun 21, 12:31 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, Stephen Hassard, (Tue Jun 20, 9:11 pm)
[linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Loki Davison, (Tue Jun 20, 11:07 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, carmen, (Tue Jun 20, 11:55 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Mark Knecht, (Wed Jun 21, 12:23 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Jonny Stutters, (Wed Jun 21, 7:45 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Frank Barknecht, (Wed Jun 21, 7:59 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Dave Robillard, (Wed Jun 21, 6:27 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Wed Jun 21, 6:35 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Frank Barknecht, (Wed Jun 21, 10:21 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, R Parker, (Wed Jun 21, 11:26 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Wed Jun 21, 10:45 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Gian Paolo Mureddu, (Wed Jun 21, 1:47 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Frank Barknecht, (Wed Jun 21, 2:36 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Gian Paolo Mureddu, (Wed Jun 21, 7:28 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Dave Robillard, (Thu Jun 22, 1:08 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Wed Jun 21, 7:52 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Gian Paolo Mureddu, (Thu Jun 22, 5:11 am)
[linux-audio-user] LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Thu Jun 22, 5:55 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Thu Jun 22, 12:17 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Thu Jun 22, 1:12 pm)
[linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Loki Davison, (Thu Jun 22, 11:49 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Fri Jun 23, 11:20 am)
RE: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Ivica Ico Bukvic, (Sat Jun 24, 12:28 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Sat Jun 24, 8:33 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Sun Jun 25, 10:01 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Sun Jun 25, 3:30 pm)
RE: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Ivica Ico Bukvic, (Sun Jun 25, 11:45 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Sun Jun 25, 4:19 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Mon Jun 26, 2:28 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Mon Jun 26, 4:04 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Wed Jun 28, 1:06 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Wed Jun 28, 4:55 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Thu Jun 29, 9:09 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Thu Jun 29, 9:29 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Thu Jun 29, 9:49 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Thu Jun 29, 12:28 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Mon Jul 10, 1:32 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Mon Jul 10, 3:36 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Mon Jul 10, 5:48 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, tim hall, (Tue Jul 11, 8:16 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Mon Jul 10, 7:15 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Thu Jul 13, 8:03 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Fri Jul 14, 5:42 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Fri Jul 14, 7:35 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, John Anderson, (Sat Jul 15, 6:37 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Steve D, (Sat Jul 15, 5:34 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Sat Jul 15, 3:23 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Sat Jul 15, 8:12 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Atte André Jensen, (Sat Jul 15, 8:21 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Sat Jul 15, 8:35 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Sat Jul 15, 9:38 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Sat Jul 15, 10:18 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Atte André Jensen, (Sat Jul 15, 10:13 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Sat Jul 15, 10:21 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Atte André Jensen, (Sat Jul 15, 11:26 am)
RE: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Ivica Ico Bukvic, (Sat Jul 15, 4:59 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Atte André Jensen, (Sat Jul 15, 8:57 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Fri Jul 14, 8:12 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Denis Alessandro Altoe Falqueto..., (Thu Jul 13, 9:05 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Fri Jul 14, 8:04 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Dan Easley, (Thu Jul 13, 9:10 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Mon Jul 10, 7:54 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Conor O'Tuama, (Mon Jul 10, 2:05 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Dave Phillips, (Mon Jul 10, 1:39 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Mon Jul 10, 4:57 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Dave Phillips, (Wed Jun 28, 1:33 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, luis jure, (Sun Jun 25, 12:46 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Patrick Shirkey, (Sun Jun 25, 2:28 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Thorsten Wilms, (Sun Jun 25, 2:22 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Lars Luthman, (Sun Jun 25, 10:14 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: LAU FAQ WIKI, Dave Phillips, (Sat Jun 24, 8:57 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Thomas Ilnseher, (Thu Jun 22, 12:48 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Thu Jun 22, 1:18 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Thomas Ilnseher, (Wed Jun 21, 11:51 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Dave Robillard, (Wed Jun 21, 6:31 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Wed Jun 21, 6:37 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Dave Robillard, (Wed Jun 21, 6:42 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Wed Jun 21, 7:18 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Esben Stien, (Wed Jun 21, 12:48 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Thomas Ilnseher, (Wed Jun 21, 3:42 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Wed Jun 21, 4:03 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Dave Phillips, (Wed Jun 21, 5:15 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Wed Jun 21, 6:35 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Patrick Shirkey, (Thu Jun 22, 4:26 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Stephen Hassard, (Thu Jun 22, 4:29 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Thu Jun 22, 4:32 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Patrick Shirkey, (Thu Jun 22, 4:46 am)
[linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Loki Davison, (Thu Jun 22, 5:02 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Dave Phillips, (Thu Jun 22, 10:24 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Patrick Shirkey, (Thu Jun 22, 11:13 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Thomas Vecchione, (Wed Jun 21, 8:02 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Wed Jun 21, 7:56 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Dave Phillips, (Wed Jun 21, 7:55 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Frank Barknecht, (Wed Jun 21, 12:34 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, glauber alex dias prado, (Wed Jun 21, 12:27 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, R Parker, (Wed Jun 21, 4:11 am)
[linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Arnold Krille, (Wed Jun 21, 12:36 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, tim hall, (Sat Jun 24, 11:28 am)
[linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Arnold Krille, (Sat Jun 24, 6:11 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, tim hall, (Sun Jun 25, 6:20 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Thomas Vecchione, (Sat Jun 24, 8:03 pm)
[linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Arnold Krille, (Sat Jun 24, 8:12 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Thomas Vecchione, (Sat Jun 24, 9:13 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, R Parker, (Wed Jun 21, 4:37 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, Lee Revell, (Wed Jun 21, 12:07 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: which graphics card?, R Parker, (Tue Jun 20, 11:27 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, R Parker, (Tue Jun 20, 8:23 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] which graphics card?, Dave Robillard, (Wed Jun 21, 6:36 pm)