Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire

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To: A list for linux audio users <linux-audio-user@...>, Mark Knecht <markknecht@...>
Date: Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 7:56 pm

On Sun, 2004-11-28 at 10:14 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:

> > Anyway, to get to the point... isn't it true that firewire by virtue of

True, USB audio works wonderfully under windows and OS X. Sub 6ms
glitch free latency. But... Mark googling around I found discussions
you and I have had about USB/Firewire audio more than a year ago, then
resumed next year and now again for the third year:

http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/2002-December/00083...

http://www.eca.cx/lau/2003/12/0442.html

Here's why I'm sadly of the opinion something like a custom 1394 card
wont work;

More than two years pass and USB is still useless for low latency work
under linux. Anyone out there have a different experience?

USB audio is ubiquitous in the windows/mac world and is pretty damn
common umong linux users I'm guessing. (How many laptop users out
there?) USB audio is a perfectly reasonable technology despite whatever
predjudices people may have.

I'm left to believe that there is 1) not enough developer/user interest
to make USB audio work well or 2) linux is not up to the task of running
USB audio interfaces 3) (less likely) a strong bias against USB by
developers.

Now if 1 or 2 are true for USB, I'm guessing they'll be true for
FireWire, if 3 is the reason for USB audio err... "not working so good"
on linux well... there may be hope for FireWire.

Either way, I'm sorry but if we can't even have functional low-latency
USB audio, how could it possibly be that FireWire will be supported, now
add to it the task of developing the hardware?

Even were it to be supported, the USB user base must be absolutely HUGE
compared to any potential FireWire base.

> *Most* 1394 devices under Windows use the normal Windows 1394

I'm sure the generic 1394 drivers are approaching the performance of
windows now. But I'm operating under the assumption the audio end of
things are going to require a bit more coding.

> I own 6 1394 peripherals. (3 hard drives, an external CDROM, an

I can't see how it could possibly gain that needed attention.

> I will also raise the question 'why can't USB attain the latencies

Ah, Mark but we've tried for years haven't we ;-)

> Unfortunately, Alsa (as I see it, and which is probably an

Mark it's a knoble cause and I support your efforts, but... well I just
can't believe we could develop a FireWire Audio interface and
software/drivers to run it when exponentially more popular USB audio is
still languishing if not completely ignored.

It's a horse before the carriage issue, the support will need to be
there before $$$ is invested in hardware, it's like designing and
building a car from scratch with no road to drive it on.

> Cheers,

--
Ryan Gallagher

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Messages in current thread:
Re: Behringer [was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: [linux-audio-d..., Michal Kostrzewa, (Tue Nov 30, 12:43 pm)
Re: Behringer [was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: [linux-audio-d..., Hasse Hagen Johansen, (Mon Nov 29, 11:04 am)
Re: Behringer [was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: [linux-audio-d..., Michal Kostrzewa, (Mon Nov 29, 10:52 am)
Re: Behringer [was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: [linux-audio-d..., Christoph Eckert, (Sun Nov 28, 11:46 pm)
[linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Ryan Gallagher, (Sun Nov 28, 4:55 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Mark Knecht, (Sun Nov 28, 6:14 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Ryan Gallagher, (Sun Nov 28, 7:56 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Mark Knecht, (Sun Nov 28, 8:23 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Lee Revell, (Sun Nov 28, 8:33 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Lee Revell, (Sun Nov 28, 8:06 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Ryan Gallagher, (Sun Nov 28, 8:24 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Lee Revell, (Sun Nov 28, 8:35 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Lee Revell, (Sun Nov 28, 8:43 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Ryan Gallagher, (Sun Nov 28, 8:32 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Lee Revell, (Sun Nov 28, 8:39 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Dave Robillard, (Sun Nov 28, 9:21 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Ryan Gallagher, (Sun Nov 28, 10:12 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] open source firewire, Mark Knecht, (Sun Nov 28, 10:26 pm)
[linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer etc., jonathan segel, (Mon Nov 29, 12:35 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Preach it! [was: Re: [linux-audio-use..., Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, (Tue Nov 30, 6:49 am)
[linux-audio-user] Re: pro-audio knowledge, Jack O'Quin, (Wed Dec 1, 5:23 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: pro-audio knowledge, tim hall, (Wed Dec 1, 3:06 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: pro-audio knowledge, Jan Depner, (Wed Dec 1, 9:59 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: pro-audio knowledge, tim hall, (Thu Dec 2, 11:49 am)
[linux-audio-user] cross-platform [was: Behringer etc.], Florin Andrei, (Mon Nov 29, 8:35 pm)
[linux-audio-user] [ANN] Linux Audio DVD in Keyboards, Matthias Nagorni, (Mon Nov 29, 4:01 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] Linux Audio DVD in Keyboards, Christoph Eckert, (Mon Nov 29, 6:52 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] Linux Audio DVD in Keyboards, Matthias Nagorni, (Wed Dec 1, 4:49 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] Linux Audio DVD in Keyboards, Christoph Eckert, (Wed Dec 1, 5:33 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] Linux Audio DVD in Keyboards, Matthias Nagorni, (Wed Dec 1, 6:10 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] [ANN] Linux Audio DVD in Keyboards, Robert Jonsson, (Mon Nov 29, 4:36 pm)
[linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Jack O'Quin, (Mon Nov 29, 3:58 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Mon Nov 29, 6:17 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Rick B, (Mon Nov 29, 8:27 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Mark Knecht, (Mon Nov 29, 8:41 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, (Mon Nov 29, 8:57 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Rob, (Mon Nov 29, 9:27 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Mon Nov 29, 9:56 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, tim hall, (Tue Nov 30, 5:20 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] (OT) meat/not meat, Michael T Nelson, (Tue Nov 30, 3:36 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] (OT) meat/not meat, tim hall, (Wed Dec 1, 1:35 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] (OT) meat/not meat, Michael T Nelson, (Wed Dec 1, 2:31 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] (OT) meat/not meat, tim hall, (Thu Dec 2, 11:40 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Russell Hanaghan, (Tue Nov 30, 6:14 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Tue Nov 30, 10:22 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Mark Knecht, (Tue Nov 30, 3:59 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Tue Nov 30, 5:44 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Mark Knecht, (Tue Nov 30, 6:19 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, tim hall, (Wed Dec 1, 1:42 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Jan Depner, (Tue Nov 30, 4:10 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Mark Knecht, (Tue Nov 30, 4:15 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Jan Depner, (Tue Nov 30, 4:21 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Tue Nov 30, 11:31 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Rob, (Tue Nov 30, 3:56 pm)
[linux-audio-user] [OT] The 99th Monkey Nut, tim hall, (Wed Dec 1, 2:34 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] [OT] The 99th Monkey Nut, Lee Revell, (Wed Dec 1, 4:20 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] [OT] The 99th Monkey Nut, Jack O'Quin, (Wed Dec 1, 5:40 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Florin Andrei, (Tue Nov 30, 5:57 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, R Parker, (Tue Nov 30, 6:51 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Tue Nov 30, 10:58 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, (Tue Nov 30, 7:56 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Tue Nov 30, 10:23 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Mark Knecht, (Tue Nov 30, 4:01 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Dave Phillips, (Tue Nov 30, 12:48 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, tim hall, (Tue Nov 30, 1:09 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Tue Nov 30, 5:44 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, (Wed Dec 1, 3:13 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Wed Dec 1, 11:30 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, (Wed Dec 1, 3:10 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Marek Peteraj, (Wed Dec 1, 11:31 pm)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: RME is no more, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, (Thu Dec 2, 1:14 am)
[linux-audio-user] Echo cards on Linux, Andres Cabrera, (Thu Dec 2, 2:15 pm)
[linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer, Esben Stien, (Wed Dec 1, 1:30 am)
Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer, Wolfgang Woehl, (Wed Dec 1, 12:11 pm)