Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

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To: J. Liles <malnourite@...>, michael noble <looplog@...>
Cc: Linux Audio User <linux-audio-user@...>, Linux Audio Developers <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Thursday, February 7, 2013 - 4:48 pm

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I think others (most?) in this community want to see Linux audio =0Aflouris=
h and not become relegated to an audio environment for =0Aprogrammers. Nobo=
dy's slagging audio geeks, really, we just want to see =0Asome effort put i=
nto making the platform more accessible to a wider =0Aaudience, and in the =
process (hopefully) maybe free up that right side =0Aof the brain to do its=
own thing in our own music-making processes. I =0Apersonally do not like t=
o have to think about very technical issues when making music; I just want =
to create.=0A=0AMichael=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From=
: J. Liles =0ATo: michael noble =
=0ACc: Linux Audio User ; Linux Audi=
o Developers =0ASent: Wednesday, Feb=
ruary 6, 2013 5:36 PM=0ASubject: Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks=
about Linux audio ?=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 3:18 PM, mich=
ael noble wrote:=0A=0A=0A>=0A>On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11=
:58 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:=0A>=0A>What I'm more i=
nterested in is what *you* think is missing most or just plain wrong about =
the situation.=0A>=0A>I started using linux for audio primarily for sooperl=
ooper, which at the time (over ten years ago i think) was the best if not=
=A0the=A0only EDP emulation for any platform. It worked great then, and it =
still works great, so from that perspective, nothing is wrong with linux au=
dio for me, except for the constant hand-wringing and complaining that some=
thing is wrong with linux audio!=0A>=0A>=0A>But of course, that is not the =
whole picture. Every now and then I wish there was a native linux audiomulc=
h equivalent, for example, but then I usually get to thinking how wrong-hea=
ded such desires seem. Windows or OSX never really evolved as audio platfor=
ms trying to emulate Windows or OSX so much, they evolved as platforms for =
music creation in their own terms. That's somewhat naive and an over simpli=
fication I realize, because for sure different software packages emulated a=
nd influenced each other, and even MS and Apple have always had their tensi=
ons about who truly innovated various features (and even linux can stake a =
claim in that respect).=A0=0A>=0A>=0A>But my point is that expecting linux =
to be just like one of those platforms seems dunderheaded to me. So one of =
the things wrong with linux audio (for me) is the constant stream of expect=
ations to replicate the experience of other platforms. It may happen, but I=
don't think it is a worthy drive for development. Yes, certain features ma=
y be worth emulating, but often times I get the feeling that people have a =
working setup on another platform, and then complain mostly because they ha=
ve to give that up when they switch platforms. They then =A0get increasingl=
y frustrated as they realize things will just not be the same as they were =
when they had a working setup on the other platform. Which often makes me q=
uestion why some people switch at all. =A0=0A>=0A>=0A>A lot of the points r=
aised in this thread are perfectly valid I'm sure from the perspective of t=
he individuals raising them, and that's what this thread is about, but I'm =
going to take a stand against what seems to a trend of slagging the "audio =
geeks". For me that is exactly what makes linux unique, interesting, fun, a=
nd yes, sometimes frustrating. It is a system where the whole system is ava=
ilable to play and learn and grow as you grow as a musician or sound design=
er. Its never-ending openness and diversity limits its effectiveness in emu=
lating windows or OSX, but linux offers an open=A0palette=A0of learning opp=
ortunities. Linux has taught me more about system design and the bigger pic=
ture of digital audio than Windows and OSX ever did. Of course, that's hard=
to quantify because who knows what might have happened if I didn't switch =
all those years ago (for one thing I might have made more music and spent l=
ess time learning about systems), but linux is
what it is and I'd rather spend time taking advantage of what it is and th=
en=A0bemoaning=A0what it isn't, as difficult as that can be sometimes.=0A>=
=0A>=0A>2 minor units of currencyMichael=0A=0AVery well put.=0A=0A_________=
______________________________________=0ALinux-audio-dev mailing list=0ALin=
ux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org=0Ahttp://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/li=
nux-audio-dev
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I think others (most?=
) in this community want to see Linux audio =0Aflourish and not become rele=
gated to an audio environment for =0Aprogrammers. Nobody's slagging audio g=
eeks, really, we just want to see =0Asome effort put into making the platfo=
rm more accessible to a wider =0Aaudience, and in the process (hopefully) m=
aybe free up that right side =0Aof the brain to do its own thing in our own=
music-making processes. I =0Apersonally do not like to have to think about=
very technical issues when=0A making music; I just want to create.Michael From: J. Liles &l=
t;malnourite@gmail.com> To: michael noble <looplog@gmail.com> Cc: Linux Audio User <linux-audio-user@lists.=
linuxaudio.org>; Linux Audio Developers <linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxa=
udio.org> Sent: We=
dnesday, February 6, 2013 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [LAD] [LAU] =
So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ? =0AOn Wed, Feb 6, 201=
3 at 3:18 PM, michael noble <looplog@gmail.com> wrote:=0AOn Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Dave Phillips &lt=
;dlphillips@woh.rr.com> wrote:=0A=0AWhat I'=
m more interested in is what *you* think is missing most or just plain wron=
g about the situation.=0A=0AI started usin=
g linux for audio primarily for sooperlooper, which at the time (over ten y=
ears ago i think) was the best if not the only EDP emulation for =
any platform. It worked great then, and it still works great, so from that =
perspective, nothing is wrong with linux audio for me, except for the const=
ant hand-wringing and complaining that something is wrong with linux audio!=
=0A=0ABut of course, that is not the whole picture. Ev=
ery now and then I wish there was a native linux audiomulch equivalent, for=
example, but then I usually get to thinking how wrong-headed such desires =
seem. Windows or OSX never really evolved as audio platforms trying to emul=
ate Windows or OSX so much, they evolved as platforms for music creation in=
their own terms. That's somewhat naive and an over simplification I realiz=
e, because for sure different software packages emulated and influenced eac=
h other, and even MS and Apple have always had their tensions about who tru=
ly innovated various features (and even linux can stake a claim in that res=
pect). =0A=0A<=
div class=3D"yiv1547323316gmail_extra">But my point is that expecting linux=
to be just like one of those platforms seems dunderheaded to me. So one of=
the things wrong with linux audio (for me) is the constant stream of expec=
tations to replicate the experience of other platforms. It may happen, but =
I don't think it is a worthy drive for development. Yes, certain features m=
ay be worth emulating, but often times I get the feeling that people have a=
working setup on another platform, and then complain mostly because they h=
ave to give that up when they switch platforms. They then  get increas=
ingly frustrated as they realize things will just not be the same as they w=
ere when they had a working setup on the other platform. Which often makes =
me question why some people switch at all.  =0A=0AA lot of the points raised in this thread are perfectly valid I'm sure fro=
m the perspective of the individuals raising them, and that's what this thr=
ead is about, but I'm going to take a stand against what seems to a trend o=
f slagging the "audio geeks". For me that is exactly what makes linux uniqu=
e, interesting, fun, and yes, sometimes frustrating. It is a system where t=
he whole system is available to play and learn and grow as you grow as a mu=
sician or sound designer. Its never-ending openness and diversity limits it=
s effectiveness in emulating windows or OSX, but linux offers an open =
palette of learning opportunities. Linux has taught me more about syst=
em design and the bigger picture of digital audio than Windows and OSX ever=
did. Of course, that's hard to quantify because who knows what might have =
happened if I didn't switch all those years ago (for one
thing I might have made more music and spent less time learning about syst=
ems), but linux is what it is and I'd rather spend time taking advantage of=
what it is and then bemoaning what it isn't, as difficult as tha=
t can be sometimes.=0A=0A=
2 minor units of currencyMichaelVery well put.=0A=0A______________________________________=
_________Linux-audio-dev mailing listLinux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.orghttp://lists.lin=
uxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
<=
/body>
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Messages in current thread:
[LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dave Phillips, (Tue Feb 5, 2:58 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sun Feb 10, 11:26 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 7, 11:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Thu Feb 7, 11:47 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 12:06 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Fri Feb 8, 12:25 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 1:02 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 10:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Harry van Haaren, (Sat Feb 9, 1:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Feb 9, 12:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Sat Feb 9, 11:21 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 7, 3:25 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thijs van severen, (Thu Feb 7, 12:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, David Robillard, (Fri Feb 8, 2:32 am)
Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Thu Feb 7, 4:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dominique Michel, (Wed Feb 6, 3:28 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Julien Claassen, (Tue Feb 5, 7:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Tue Feb 5, 4:55 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Florian Paul Schmidt, (Wed Feb 6, 4:42 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Tue Feb 5, 5:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thorsten Wilms, (Tue Feb 5, 4:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas, (Tue Feb 5, 7:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Johannes Kroll, (Tue Feb 5, 4:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Tue Feb 5, 3:47 pm)