Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

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To: Gabbe Nord <gabbe.nord@...>
Cc: linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org <linux-audio-user@...>, linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 - 6:53 pm

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Yeah, I posted that before I read the rest of the conversation around that =
topic. Good points.=0A=0AMichael=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________=
____=0A From: Gabbe Nord =0ATo: Michael Bechard =0ACc: Devin Anderson ; Dave Ph=
illips ; "linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org"

  • ; "linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org=
    " =0ASent: Wednesday, February 6, 20=
    13 12:27 PM=0ASubject: Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Lin=
    ux audio ?=0A =0A=0ALike said before, I think alot of user feedback could b=
    e gained if just there was a simple way to do it, and people got reminded.=
    =0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Michael Bechard wrote:=0A=0AI second the frustration on a lack of user feedback...=0A>=
    =0A>Michael=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>=
    From: Devin Anderson =0A>To: Dave Phillips =0A>Cc: linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org; linux-au=
    dio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org =0A>Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 11:09 AM=
    =0A>Subject: Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?=
    =0A> =0A>=0A>Hi Dave,=0A>=0A>On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Dave Phillips =
    wrote:=0A>=0A>> Not enough native plugins, esp. ins=
    truments.=0A>=0A>I think this is one of the key problems with Linux audio.=
    =A0 Part of the=0A>problem is that there is no clear mechanism for (non-dev=
    eloper) users=0A>to create their own instruments.=A0 Many VSTs are construc=
    ted with=0A>modular DSP programs like synthedit and flowstone (formerly=0A>=
    synthmaker).=A0 There's probably an opportunity here for Ingen or a new=0A>=
    graphical DSP program based on Faust to fill this hole.=0A>=0A>In general, =
    I think that Linux audio has a lot of tools that help=0A>users to create mu=
    sic, but not a lot of tools that help users create=0A>their own tools (e.g.=
    instruments, plugins, sample libraries, etc.) to=0A>help others to create =
    music.=0A>=0A>On the development side, I think Aur=E9lien=0A and others lik=
    e him have the=0A>right idea in taking instruments/plugins that are specifi=
    c to a Linux=0A>audio application and porting them to LV2.=A0 There's a lot=
    of awesome=0A>instruments that are specific to applications (e.g. ALSA Mod=
    ular=0A>Synth, LMMS, etc.) that would generally be more useful if they were=
    =0A>LV2 plugins.=0A>=0A>> Poor external/internal session management.=0A>=0A=
    ograms like Renoise account for external hardware in their workflows=0A>(e.=
    g. latency management, MIDI clock, MMC, etc.).=A0 Most Linux Audio=0A>apps =
    don't do this.=0A>=0A>> Too much conflict/fragmentation within the developm=
    ent community.=0A>=0A>I've been trying to write something about conflict an=
    d fragmentation=0A>for the past 10 minutes.=A0 I think this is a complex is=
    sue.=A0 I'm not=0A>able to find the words to communicate about it right now=
    .=0A>=0A>> So, in your honest=0A and bold opinion as user and/or developer,=
    what do we=0A>> lack most and what can we do without that we already have =
    ?=0A>=0A>As a developer, I'm missing a couple things:=0A>=0A>1.) User feedb=
    ack.=0A>=0A>I can't stress this enough.=A0 I watch the download counts incr=
    ease on=0A>the applications I create, but I hardly ever get feedback.=A0 I'=
    m=0A>discouraged and frustrated by the lack of feedback.=0A>=0A>2.) Non-cod=
    e developers=0A>=0A>We have a lot of dedicated open source developers writi=
    ng Linux audio=0A>apps, plugins, etc., but I have yet to meet an open sourc=
    e UI=0A>designer, or an open source graphic artist.=A0 I think a lot of the=
    apps=0A>we create could benefit from the feedback of a user interface=0A>e=
    xperience expert.=0A>=0A>There's probably more, but these are the two thing=
    s that occur to me now.=0A>=0A>Dave, this is an important topic.=A0 Thanks =
    for taking it on.=0A>=0A>-- =0A>Devin Anderson=0A>surfacepatterns (at) gmai=
    l (dot)=0A com=0A>=0A>blog - http://surfacepatterns.blogspot.com/=0A>midisn=
    oop - http://midisnoop.googlecode.com/=0A>psinsights - http://psinsights.go=
    oglecode.com/=0A>synthclone - http://synthclone.googlecode.com/=0A>________=
    _______________________________________=0A>Linux-audio-dev mailing list=0A>=
    Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org=0A>http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinf=
    o/linux-audio-dev=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>__________________________________________=
    _____=0A>Linux-audio-dev mailing list=0A>Linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.o=
    rg=0A>http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev=0A>=0A>
    --1298779297-734929521-1360176809=:72406
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    Yeah, I posted that b=
    efore I read the rest of the conversation around that topic. Good points.Michael <=
    div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-siz=
    e: 12pt;"> From: Gabbe Nord <ga=
    bbe.nord@gmail.com> To:=
    Michael Bechard <gothmagog@yahoo.com> Cc: Devin Anderson <surfacepatterns@gmail.com=

    linuxaudio.org" <linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org>;
    "linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org" <linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudi=
    o.org> Sent: Wedne=
    sday, February 6, 2013 12:27 PM S=
    ubject: Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux a=
    udio ? =0ALike said before, I think alot o=
    f user feedback could be gained if just there was a simple way to do it, an=
    d people got reminded.On Wed=
    , Feb 6, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Michael Bechard <gothmagog@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=
    I second the frust=
    ration on a lack of user feedback...=0AMichael =0A From: Devin Anderson <surfacepatterns@gmail.com> To: Dave Phillips <dlphillips@woh.rr.com> =0ACc: linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org; linux-audio-dev@li=
    sts.linuxaudio.org
    =0A Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [LAD]=0A [LAU] So what do you think suck=
    s about Linux audio ? =
    =0AHi Dave,On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Dave Phillips <<=
    a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:dlphillips@woh.rr.com" target=3D"_blan=
    k" href=3D"mailto:dlphillips@woh.rr.com">dlphillips@woh.rr.com> wrot=
    e:> Not enough native plugins, esp. instruments.=0AI thi=
    nk this is one of the key problems with Linux audio.  Part of thep=
    roblem is that there is no clear mechanism for (non-developer) usersto =
    create their own instruments.  Many VSTs are constructed withmodul=
    ar DSP programs like synthedit and flowstone (formerly=0Asynthmaker).&n=
    bsp; There's probably an opportunity here for Ingen or a newgraphical D=
    SP program based on Faust to fill this hole.In general, I think tha=
    t Linux audio has a lot of tools that helpusers to create music, but no=
    t a lot of tools that help users create=0Atheir own tools (e.g. instrum=
    ents, plugins, sample libraries, etc.) tohelp others to create music.On the development side, I think Aur=E9lien=0A and others like him ha=
    ve theright idea in taking instruments/plugins that are specific to a L=
    inuxaudio application and porting them to LV2.  There's a lot of a=
    wesomeinstruments that are specific to applications (e.g. ALSA Modular<=
    br>=0ASynth, LMMS, etc.) that would generally be more useful if they wereLV2 plugins.> Poor external/internal session management.Interacting with external hardware can be frustrating.  Commercialprograms like Renoise account for external hardware in their workflows=0A(e.g. latency management, MIDI clock, MMC, etc.).  Most Linux Audi=
    oapps don't do this.> Too much conflict/fragmentation within=
    the development community.I've been trying to write something abou=
    t conflict and fragmentation=0Afor the past 10 minutes.  I think t=
    his is a complex issue.  I'm notable to find the words to communic=
    ate about it right now.> So, in your honest=0A and bold opinion =
    as user and/or developer, what do we> lack most and what can we do w=
    ithout that we already have ?As a developer, I'm missing a couple t=
    hings:1.) User feedback.I can't stress this enough.  I=
    watch the download counts increase on=0Athe applications I create, but=
    I hardly ever get feedback.  I'mdiscouraged and frustrated by the=
    lack of feedback.2.) Non-code developersWe have a lot of d=
    edicated open source developers writing Linux audio=0Aapps, plugins, et=
    c., but I have yet to meet an open source UIdesigner, or an open source=
    graphic artist.  I think a lot of the appswe create could benefit=
    from the feedback of a user interfaceexperience expert.=0ATher=
    e's probably more, but these are the two things that occur to me now.Dave, this is an important topic.  Thanks for taking it on.-=
    - Devin Andersonsurfacepatterns (at) gmail (dot)=0A comblog=
    - http://surfacepatterns.blogspot.com/midisnoop - http://midisnoop.goo=
    glecode.com/=0Apsinsights - http://psinsights.googlecode.com/synthc=
    lone - http://synthclone.googlecode.com/=0A____________________________=
    ___________________Linux-audio-dev mailing listLinux-audio-dev@lists.l=
    inuxaudio.org
    http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev=0A __________________=
    _____________________________=0ALinux-audio-dev mailing list=0ALinux-a=
    udio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
    =0Ahttp://lis=
    ts.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
    =0A=0A
    --1298779297-734929521-1360176809=:72406--

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    Messages in current thread:
    [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dave Phillips, (Tue Feb 5, 2:58 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sun Feb 10, 11:26 am)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 7, 11:08 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Thu Feb 7, 11:47 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 12:06 am)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Fri Feb 8, 12:25 am)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 1:02 am)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 10:15 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Harry van Haaren, (Sat Feb 9, 1:41 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Feb 9, 12:08 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Sat Feb 9, 11:21 am)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 7, 3:25 am)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thijs van severen, (Thu Feb 7, 12:30 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, David Robillard, (Fri Feb 8, 2:32 am)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dominique Michel, (Wed Feb 6, 3:28 am)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Julien Claassen, (Tue Feb 5, 7:07 pm)
    Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Wed Feb 6, 6:53 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Tue Feb 5, 4:55 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Florian Paul Schmidt, (Wed Feb 6, 4:42 am)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Tue Feb 5, 5:43 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thorsten Wilms, (Tue Feb 5, 4:19 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas, (Tue Feb 5, 7:09 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Johannes Kroll, (Tue Feb 5, 4:07 pm)
    Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Tue Feb 5, 3:47 pm)