Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

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To: Devin Anderson <surfacepatterns@...>, Dave Phillips <dlphillips@...>
Cc: linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org <linux-audio-user@...>, linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 - 6:25 pm

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I second the frustration on a lack of user feedback...=0A=0AMichael=0A=0A=
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Devin Anderson =0ATo: Dave Phillips =0ACc: linux=
-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org; linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org =0AS=
ent: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 11:09 AM=0ASubject: Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what =
do you think sucks about Linux audio ?=0A =0AHi Dave,=0A=0AOn Tue, Feb 5, 2=
013 at 6:58 AM, Dave Phillips wrote:=0A=0A> Not eno=
ugh native plugins, esp. instruments.=0A=0AI think this is one of the key p=
roblems with Linux audio.=A0 Part of the=0Aproblem is that there is no clea=
r mechanism for (non-developer) users=0Ato create their own instruments.=A0=
Many VSTs are constructed with=0Amodular DSP programs like synthedit and f=
lowstone (formerly=0Asynthmaker).=A0 There's probably an opportunity here f=
or Ingen or a new=0Agraphical DSP program based on Faust to fill this hole.=
=0A=0AIn general, I think that Linux audio has a lot of tools that help=0Au=
sers to create music, but not a lot of tools that help users create=0Atheir=
own tools (e.g. instruments, plugins, sample libraries, etc.) to=0Ahelp ot=
hers to create music.=0A=0AOn the development side, I think Aur=E9lien and =
others like him have the=0Aright idea in taking instruments/plugins that ar=
e specific to a Linux=0Aaudio application and porting them to LV2.=A0 There=
's a lot of awesome=0Ainstruments that are specific to applications (e.g. A=
LSA Modular=0ASynth, LMMS, etc.) that would generally be more useful if the=
y were=0ALV2 plugins.=0A=0A> Poor external/internal session management.=0A=
=0AInteracting with external hardware can be frustrating.=A0 Commercial=0Ap=
rograms like Renoise account for external hardware in their workflows=0A(e.=
g. latency management, MIDI clock, MMC, etc.).=A0 Most Linux Audio=0Aapps d=
on't do this.=0A=0A> Too much conflict/fragmentation within the development=
community.=0A=0AI've been trying to write something about conflict and fra=
gmentation=0Afor the past 10 minutes.=A0 I think this is a complex issue.=
=A0 I'm not=0Aable to find the words to communicate about it right now.=0A=
=0A> So, in your honest and bold opinion as user and/or developer, what do =
we=0A> lack most and what can we do without that we already have ?=0A=0AAs =
a developer, I'm missing a couple things:=0A=0A1.) User feedback.=0A=0AI ca=
n't stress this enough.=A0 I watch the download counts increase on=0Athe ap=
plications I create, but I hardly ever get feedback.=A0 I'm=0Adiscouraged a=
nd frustrated by the lack of feedback.=0A=0A2.) Non-code developers=0A=0AWe=
have a lot of dedicated open source developers writing Linux audio=0Aapps,=
plugins, etc., but I have yet to meet an open source UI=0Adesigner, or an =
open source graphic artist.=A0 I think a lot of the apps=0Awe create could =
benefit from the feedback of a user interface=0Aexperience expert.=0A=0AThe=
re's probably more, but these are the two things that occur to me now.=0A=
=0ADave, this is an important topic.=A0 Thanks for taking it on.=0A=0A-- =
=0ADevin Anderson=0Asurfacepatterns (at) gmail (dot) com=0A=0Ablog - http:/=
/surfacepatterns.blogspot.com/=0Amidisnoop - http://midisnoop.googlecode.co=
m/=0Apsinsights - http://psinsights.googlecode.com/=0Asynthclone - http://s=
ynthclone.googlecode.com/=0A_______________________________________________=
=0ALinux-audio-dev mailing list=0ALinux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org=0Aht=
tp://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
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I second the frustrat=
ion on a lack of user feedback...Michael<=
/div> From: Devin Anderson <surfacepatterns@gmail.com> =
To: Dave Phillips <dlphill=
ips@woh.rr.com> Cc:=
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org; linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.or=
g Sent: Tuesday, Febr=
uary 5, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [LAD]
[LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ? =0AHi Dave,On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips@woh.rr.com> wrote:> Not enough native plugi=
ns, esp. instruments.I think this is one of the key problems with L=
inux audio.  Part of theproblem is that there is no clear mechanis=
m for (non-developer) usersto create their own instruments.  Many =
VSTs are constructed withmodular DSP programs like synthedit and flowst=
one (formerlysynthmaker).  There's probably an opportunity here fo=
r Ingen or a newgraphical DSP program based on Faust to fill this hole.=
In general, I think that Linux audio has a lot of tools that helpusers to create music, but not a lot of tools that help users createt=
heir own tools (e.g. instruments, plugins, sample libraries, etc.) tohe=
lp others to create music.On the development side, I think Aur=E9li=
en
and others like him have theright idea in taking instruments/plugins t=
hat are specific to a Linuxaudio application and porting them to LV2.&n=
bsp; There's a lot of awesomeinstruments that are specific to applicati=
ons (e.g. ALSA ModularSynth, LMMS, etc.) that would generally be more u=
seful if they wereLV2 plugins.> Poor external/internal sessi=
on management.Interacting with external hardware can be frustrating=
.  Commercialprograms like Renoise account for external hardware i=
n their workflows(e.g. latency management, MIDI clock, MMC, etc.).&nbsp=
; Most Linux Audioapps don't do this.> Too much conflict/fra=
gmentation within the development community.I've been trying to wri=
te something about conflict and fragmentationfor the past 10 minutes.&n=
bsp; I think this is a complex issue.  I'm notable to find the wor=
ds to communicate about it right now.> So, in your honest
and bold opinion as user and/or developer, what do we> lack most an=
d what can we do without that we already have ?As a developer, I'm =
missing a couple things:1.) User feedback.I can't stress th=
is enough.  I watch the download counts increase onthe application=
s I create, but I hardly ever get feedback.  I'mdiscouraged and fr=
ustrated by the lack of feedback.2.) Non-code developersWe =
have a lot of dedicated open source developers writing Linux audioapps,=
plugins, etc., but I have yet to meet an open source UIdesigner, or an=
open source graphic artist.  I think a lot of the appswe create c=
ould benefit from the feedback of a user interfaceexperience expert.There's probably more, but these are the two things that occur to me n=
ow.Dave, this is an important topic.  Thanks for taking it on.=
-- Devin Andersonsurfacepatterns (at) gmail (dot)
comblog - http://surfacepatterns.blogspot.com/midisnoop - http=
://midisnoop.googlecode.com/psinsights - http://psinsights.googlecode.c=
om/synthclone - http://synthclone.googlecode.com/__________________=
_____________________________Linux-audio-dev mailing listLinux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.orghttp=
://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev =

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Messages in current thread:
[LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dave Phillips, (Tue Feb 5, 2:58 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sun Feb 10, 11:26 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 7, 11:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Thu Feb 7, 11:47 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 12:06 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Fri Feb 8, 12:25 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 1:02 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 10:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Harry van Haaren, (Sat Feb 9, 1:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Feb 9, 12:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Sat Feb 9, 11:21 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 7, 3:25 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thijs van severen, (Thu Feb 7, 12:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, David Robillard, (Fri Feb 8, 2:32 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dominique Michel, (Wed Feb 6, 3:28 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Julien Claassen, (Tue Feb 5, 7:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Wed Feb 6, 6:25 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Tue Feb 5, 4:55 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Florian Paul Schmidt, (Wed Feb 6, 4:42 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Tue Feb 5, 5:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thorsten Wilms, (Tue Feb 5, 4:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas, (Tue Feb 5, 7:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Johannes Kroll, (Tue Feb 5, 4:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Tue Feb 5, 3:47 pm)