Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]
To: linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org <linux-audio-user@...>, linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 - 3:47 pm

--122454116-1097474973-1360079222=:71526
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Dave,=0A=0AMy experience as a Linux audio user:=0A=0A1. not enough instr=
ument plugins=0A2. poor VST support=0A3. poor session management=0A4. incon=
sistent use of existing standards by apps=0A=0A=0AMy experience as a Linux =
developer (albeit a small one):=0A=0A1. too many standards, hard to know wh=
at to implement=0A2. too much fragmentation in the developer community, hin=
ders progress on #1=0A=0AMy opinions on what is a problem for Linux adoptio=
n by the wider community of electronic musicians:=0A=0AAlmost all of the th=
ings you mentioned.=0A=0A=0AMany developers in the Linux community either a=
.) seem unable to put themselves in the shoes of a musician coming off of m=
ost other professional-grade audio software on non-Linux platforms, or b.) =
don't seem to care about catering to that audience's wants or needs. I know=
I'm painting with broad strokes here; not everyone is like that, but most =
seem to be, IMO.=0A=0AMichael Bechard=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________=
______=0A From: Dave Phillips =0ATo: linux-audio-use=
r@lists.linuxaudio.org; linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org =0ASent: Tuesd=
ay, February 5, 2013 8:58 AM=0ASubject: [LAD] So what do you think sucks ab=
out Linux audio ?=0A =0AGreetings,=0A=0AI've been reading a lot of negative=
(read: vitriolic) commentary about the world of Linux audio development an=
d applications. I won't bother to say where, just "the usual places" will h=
ave to suffice. Of greater interest to me is the commentary itself - it see=
ms to boil down to the following plaints and lamentations (in no particular=
order) :=0A=0AToo many distros.=0AToo many audio-optimized distros.=0ANot =
enough native plugins, esp. instruments.=0AInconsistent support for VST/VST=
i plugins.=0AToo many unstable/unfinished applications.=0AToo many=A0 "stan=
dards" (esp. wrt plugins).=0APoor external/internal session management.=0AP=
oor support for certain modes of composition (think Ableton Live).=0ALack o=
f support for contemporary hardware.=0AConfusion re: desktops, and GUI tool=
kits.=0AToo difficult to set up audio system.=0AJACK is a pain.=0AToo much =
conflict/fragmentation within the development community.=0A=0AI'm not so in=
terested in comments on the commentary, I have my own, but say what you wil=
l about the list. I figure that most denizens of these lists already have r=
eady replies and responses to these and other criticisms, many of which hav=
e been voiced here previously. What I'm more interested in is what *you* th=
ink is missing most or just plain wrong about the situation. Please, try to=
speak your piece without flames or dissing other developers and/or their w=
ork. Frankly speaking, I've had enough of that crap, and I'm most thankful =
these days for such forum amenities as "mute user" and autodiscard, along w=
ith the standard filters found in mail clients.=0A=0A=0AI'm reminded=
of John Cage's comments regarding the behavior of the NY Philharmonic when=
they destroyed his equipment during the premire of Atlas Eclipticalis, som=
ething to the effect that his concerns had ceased to be musical and had bec=
ome social, i.e. that he had to figure a way to allow people to be free yet=
behave themselves with respect towards the common goal (e.g. Cage's music =
and property). I'm going to guess that he was still working on that up to h=
is death.=0A=0A=0ASo, in your honest and bold opinion as user and/o=
r developer, what do we lack most and what can we do without that we alread=
y have ? Please feel free to expand your remarks as you like. I'm planning =
an article on the topic and will likely use selected comments, subject to a=
pproval of course.=0A=0ABest,=0A=0Adp=0A=0A________________________________=
_______________=0ALinux-audio-dev mailing list=0ALinux-audio-dev@lists.linu=
xaudio.org=0Ahttp://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
--122454116-1097474973-1360079222=:71526
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Dave,My experience as a Linux =
audio user: 1. not enou=
gh instrument plugins2. poor VST support3. poor session management4. inconsistent =
use of existing standards by appsMy experience as a Linux developer (albeit a small
one):1. too many stand=
ards, hard to know what to implement2. too much fra=
gmentation in the developer community, hinders progress on #1<=
div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: times new r=
oman,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: norma=
l;">My opinions on what is a problem f=
or Linux adoption by the wider community of electronic musicians:Almost all of the things you ment=
ioned.Many develope=
rs in the Linux community either a.) seem unable to put themselves in the
shoes of a musician coming off of most other professional-grade audio soft=
ware on non-Linux platforms, or b.) don't seem to care about catering to th=
at audience's wants or needs. I know I'm painting with broad strokes here; =
not everyone is like that, but most seem to be, IMO.<=
span>Michael Bechard <=
div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-siz=
e: 12pt;"> <=
hr size=3D"1"> From: Dave =
Phillips
<dlphillips@woh.rr.com> To=
: linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org; linux-audio-dev@lists.l=
inuxaudio.org Sent: T=
uesday, February 5, 2013 8:58 AM =
Subject: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ? =0AGreetings,I've been reading a lot of negati=
ve (read: vitriolic) commentary about the world of Linux audio development =
and applications. I won't bother to say where, just "the usual places" will=
have to suffice. Of greater interest to me is the commentary itself - it s=
eems to boil down to the following plaints and lamentations (in no particul=
ar order) :Too many distros.Too many audio-optimized distros.Not enough native plugins, esp. instruments.Inconsistent support for =
VST/VSTi plugins.Too many unstable/unfinished applications.Too many=
  "standards" (esp. wrt plugins).Poor external/internal session ma=
nagement.Poor support for certain modes of composition (think Ableton L=
ive).Lack of support for contemporary hardware.Confusion re: deskto=
ps, and GUI toolkits.Too difficult to set up audio system.JACK is a=
pain.Too much conflict/fragmentation within the development community.=
I'm not
so interested in comments on the commentary, I have my own, but say what y=
ou will about the list. I figure that most denizens of these lists already =
have ready replies and responses to these and other criticisms, many of whi=
ch have been voiced here previously. What I'm more interested in is what *y=
ou* think is missing most or just plain wrong about the situation. Please, =
try to speak your piece without flames or dissing other developers and/or t=
heir work. Frankly speaking, I've had enough of that crap, and I'm most tha=
nkful these days for such forum amenities as "mute user" and autodiscard, a=
long with the standard filters found in mail clients.<aside><=
br>I'm reminded of John Cage's comments regarding the behavior of the NY Ph=
ilharmonic when they destroyed his equipment during the premire of Atlas Ec=
lipticalis, something to the effect that his concerns had ceased to be musi=
cal and had become social, i.e. that he had to figure a way to allow
people to be free yet behave themselves with respect towards the common go=
al (e.g. Cage's music and property). I'm going to guess that he was still w=
orking on that up to his death.</aside>So, in your honest=
and bold opinion as user and/or developer, what do we lack most and what c=
an we do without that we already have ? Please feel free to expand your rem=
arks as you like. I'm planning an article on the topic and will likely use =
selected comments, subject to approval of course.Best,dp_______________________________________________Linux-audio-dev mai=
ling listLinux-audio-dev@lists.lin=
uxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev=

--122454116-1097474973-1360079222=:71526--

Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]

Messages in current thread:
[LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dave Phillips, (Tue Feb 5, 2:58 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sun Feb 10, 11:26 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 7, 11:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Thu Feb 7, 11:47 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 12:06 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Fri Feb 8, 12:25 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 1:02 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 8, 10:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Harry van Haaren, (Sat Feb 9, 1:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Feb 9, 12:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Louigi Verona, (Sat Feb 9, 11:21 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 7, 3:25 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thijs van severen, (Thu Feb 7, 12:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, David Robillard, (Fri Feb 8, 2:32 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Dominique Michel, (Wed Feb 6, 3:28 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Julien Claassen, (Tue Feb 5, 7:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Tue Feb 5, 4:55 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Florian Paul Schmidt, (Wed Feb 6, 4:42 am)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Jostein Chr. Andersen, (Tue Feb 5, 5:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Thorsten Wilms, (Tue Feb 5, 4:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas, (Tue Feb 5, 7:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Johannes Kroll, (Tue Feb 5, 4:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?, Michael Bechard, (Tue Feb 5, 3:47 pm)