Re: [LAD] [LAU] So what do you think sucks about Linux audio ?

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To: Dan MacDonald <allcoms@...>, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-user@...>, <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Sunday, February 10, 2013 - 10:38 pm

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Correction:"Now of course , one can't expose options of all programs in =
the session-front-end but just the most important ones to quickly set up th=
e project. '"I ment: one can't expose all options of each pr=
ogram, but just the most important options of each program to quickly set u=
p the project.Sorry,Gerald-- Sent from my HP TouchPad=
On 10.02.2013 23:05, gerald.mwan= <> wrote: Auto mode for JACK=
latency is a good idea. I have another proposition: a dedicated g=
raphical front-end for jack session. It could help users setup their workfl=
ow , by providing a list of all the jack aware programs installed, categori=
zed by type (sampler, daw, synth). The program should aid in setting up a p=
roject , eg firing up ardour with several tracks, firing up synths (lv2 ins=
truments/hosts incl) with presets selectable from the front-end with a prev=
iew sound. The front-end could trigger the synth in question with a midi no=
te when selecting a preset. Lv2 plugins, that is pure audio effects, could =
also listed with the ability to directly send a signal from the audio inter=
face through the selected plugin to quickly hear what it does. One could th=
en associate the selected plugin with, say a track in ardour, and another p=
lugin with a track in hydrogen or so. This would just be for setting up=
a project. The fine tuning comes later. Such a front-end could gi=
ve the linux audio ecosystem as a whole a face, just like qjackctl gives JA=
CK a face, and it does not degrade the quality of the ecosystem. Now of cou=
rse , one can't expose options of all programs in the session-front-end but=
just the most important ones to quickly set up the project. You may think,=
why not just create templates, scripts so on? Well my personal subjective =
answer: my musical projects vary . I simply can't create templates and scri=
pts because the configuration changes immensely from song to song. So the p=
roposed front-end should allow a quick start into the project so that one c=
ould rapidly record an idea.This front-end could also list audio progra=
ms, plugins which are currently not installed, so that they are discoverabl=
e within one central place, much like an app-store or specialized repo (it =
could be connected to popular linux audio repos, e.g kxstudio).As a dev=
eloper in computer vision (I'm doing my PhD developing largely on ubuntu) I=
am aware technical nitty gritty detail problems (realtime video has a lot =
in common with realtime audio), but here I'm trying to portray a bigger vis=
ion/picture. I've ditched windows years ago, and I have never owned an =
apple product. But I strongly recommend to learn from the two, to cleanly a=
nalyze the good and bad aspects of propriety audio software. Then cherry-pi=
ck the good aspects. This can only benefit open-source in general. And to m=
ake it clear: it is not my intention to grow the userbase at any cost. I ra=
ther want enhance the user experience quality for us current users, devs. Y=
ou heard it: devs too;-) but in a manner that people can opt in to do thing=
s the way they want (no one would have to use the proposed front-end) .=
I can go further: such a front-end only makes sense if jack-session support=
is made mandatory, which I've suggested before and earned a storm of negat=
ive replies. So let the storm come ;-)Cheers,Gerald-- Sent from my HP TouchPadOn 10.02.2013 17:58, Dan MacDonald <allcoms@g=> wrote: Hi Ralf!O=
n Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice=
> wrote:=0AOn Sun, 2013-02-10 at 09:59 +0000, Dan MacDonald wrote:=
=0A> * JACK needs to become more plug-and-play. I think its a shame it=0A> still offers no way to auto-detect optimal settings on any given =
setup=0A> and instead the user has to find out what options to tweak=
then find=0A> the best settings through trial and error.=0A=
=0AHow should it be done to auto-detect the best settings? IMO it's=0Aimpossible.Surely its possible to get an opt=
imized JACK setup working better than it does currently?I'm not adv=
ocating JACK lose any of its options but what I'm thinking is something lik=
e this. Lets call the way JACK gets started at present the manual mode and =
I want to see an auto ('low latency scanner') mode added. On first run, aut=
o-mode would do something equivalent to running a stripped down ecasound th=
at would run a series of tests to determine the best settings (for tracking=
) that your setup can currently achieve without xruns. It would likely be u=
p to the user to re-run the auto tests when they change hardware unless aut=
o mode scans for that too. Exactly what the test would comprise of I'm not =
sure but maybe something like simulating a tracking a few tracks w/ plugins=
added to each. JACK has a dummy audio device so I'm presuming here that it=
could simulate recording sound too else maybe this is impossible.=0A=0A>=0A&=
gt; * JACK can still fail to start and just leave the user with some=0A=

enced this very seldom, but it's true, I at least remember one=0Avery s=
trange example on jack devel mailing list a while ago. The output=0Alea=
d into a completely wrong direction.=0A=0A> * =
JACK can't hot swap audio devices and so if the user wants this=0A> =
feature they have to integrate PA with JACK which sadly still isn't=0A&=
gt; straightforward under many popular distros and then the user has to=
=0A> learn about how ALSA, PA and JACK interact.=0A=0AAre =
there many cases when users need to switch the audio device?I switch audio device several times a day. Sometimes I'll use on=
board audio, sometimes I'll use my USB portable hifi output and sometimes I=
'll be using my Focusrite. They all have their own use cases.=0A=0A=0A> [snip]=0A>=0A> In fact, I'm a bit concerned that if Bitwig leads t=
o an explosion of=0A> commercial apps and plugins for Linux and LA b=
usts out of its niche=0A> that LA* will suffer a kinda Ubuntu/Androi=
d effect where these lists=0A> will get swamped with newb questions =
and cause many of our valued=0A> members to unsubscribe.=0A=
=0AThere's already energyXT, but it didn't cause such an explosion.energyXT is in no way comparable in sheer hype and =
the music tech industry/market interest thats surrounding Bitwig. energyXT =
is unlikely to be counted in the top 50 DAWs now or at the time of its init=
ial release. Ableton and its offspring Bitwig are a BIG deal for Linux and =
music tech as a whole as Ableton has enjoyed being one of the most popular =
music production apps of recent years. Ableton has real market recognition =
which Bitwig is inheriting and its very likely one of the top 5 most popula=
r music apps today. energyXT?=0AWhether you're into these sequencer=
s or not, many people are so Bitwig is big news Ralf - BIIIIIIG!!! :D=0A

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