Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions

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To: Fons Adriaensen <fons@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 10:34 pm

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On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 04:22:58PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:

I think you know precisely what I mean.

> look fons, variable size frame counts were one approach to a genuine

That is probably true. But that doesn't make using that mechanism

in the absence of a part of the API designed specifically to deliver
automation data, its one of the few reasonably straightforward choices.

> A well-designed plugin

plugins are free to do this with or without a requirement that they handle
0..N frames. certainly, doing so can be a bit more complex with the 0..N
requirement, but its not impossible - there is an entire company's suite of
plugins that all do this across more than 6 plugin APIs all of which have
the 0..N requirement.

I didn't comment *at all* on the desing process of the LADSPA plugin

LADSPA and LV2 are not independent here. the requirement that you're
talking about:

> - the requirement for a plugin to accept any value of nframes

is shared across just about every plugin API out there. on the other hand,
its use as an

> easy way to allow 'sample accurate' control - into the 'next generation'

is host-specific, and doesn't have much to do with the API.

> Question: do A2 and/or A3 actually subdivide a period in order to

depends on the plugin API in use. in some cases yes, in others no.

> If yes, do they also try to deliver 'sample accurate' control values

data from control surfaces of any kind is quantized to the blocksize, and
when delivered during non-automation playback, delayed by up to one block.

automation data is recorded by sampling plugin control port values. the
only thing that can generate sub-block size resolution is GUI-based (or
similar) editing of the data.

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On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Fons Ad=
riaensen <fons@linuxaudio.org> wrote:
On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 04:22:58PM -0400, Paul Davis wrot=
e:

> as once again another discussion that could be a useful technical

So far I didn't spit and I have no intention to do such a thing.<=
br>I think you know precisely what I mea=
n.=A0

br>

That is probably true. But that doesn't make using that mechanism
to deliver automation data a good idea. in the absenc=
e of a part of the API designed specifically to deliver automation data, it=
s one of the few reasonably straightforward choices.=A0
A well-designed plugin
should actually impose its own limits on the rate of change orplugins are free to do this with or without a requirement that=
they handle 0..N frames. certainly, doing so can be a bit more complex wit=
h the 0..N requirement, but its not impossible - there is an entire company=
's suite of plugins that all do this across more than 6 plugin APIs all=
of which have the 0..N requirement.
I didn't co=
mment *at all* on the desing process of the LADSPA plugin
standard. Please re-read. I did imply that copying some aspects of itLADSPA and LV2 are not independent here. the requiremen=
t that you're talking about:=A0

- the requirement for a plugin to accept any value of nframes =
is shared across just about every plugin API out there. on the oth=
er hand, its use as an=A0=A0

easy way to allow 'sample accurate' control - into the 'next ge=
neration'is host-specific, and doesn't ha=
ve much to do with the API.=A0=A0

Question: do A2 and/or A3 actually subdivide a period in order to
deliver automation data or not ?depends on the pl=
ugin API in use. in some cases yes, in others no.=A0

If yes, do they also try to deliver 'sample accurate' control value=
s
in case these are real-time (from GUI widgets, MIDI, OSC) ?data from control surfaces of any kind is quantized to the blocks=
ize, and when delivered during=A0 non-automation playback, delayed by up to=
one block.
automation data is recorded by sampling plugin control port values. the=
only thing that can generate sub-block size resolution is GUI-based (or si=
milar) editing of the data.

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Messages in current thread:
[LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 2:43 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 10:02 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Tim E. Real, (Sat May 26, 11:47 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 12:58 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 6:24 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 8:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 6:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 9:00 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 9:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 11:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 12:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Mon May 28, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 5:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Mon May 28, 5:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 7:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Mon May 28, 9:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Fri Jun 1, 10:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Jun 1, 10:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Fri Jun 1, 10:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Jun 1, 10:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat Jun 2, 12:22 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat Jun 2, 2:40 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Tim Goetze, (Sat Jun 2, 9:32 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat Jun 2, 4:16 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Tim Goetze, (Mon Jun 4, 8:08 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 10:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Tue May 29, 3:55 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 8:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 8:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 9:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 10:02 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 12:48 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 11:16 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 4:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Paul Davis, (Sun May 27, 2:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 5:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 7:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 10:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 10:53 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Thorsten Wilms, (Mon May 28, 11:54 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Paul Davis, (Sat May 26, 8:23 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 11:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 8:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Paul Davis, (Sat May 26, 10:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Adrian Knoth, (Sat May 26, 6:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 8:27 pm)