Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions

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To: David Robillard <d@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 10:02 pm

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 05:08:47PM -0400, David Robillard wrote:

> Here, notice a plugin not working in the host is *inherent*. This is

Understood, and not for the first time. But it leads to chicken/egg
situations. I'm not going to write an LV2 requiring N features if
there isn't a host providing them. And probably vice versa for host
authors. And that is why I'd prefer a more demanding core spec.

Dave, if there is anything I find contradictory in your argumentation
(and that is often why I react to it) it is that you seem to sweep
this point under the carpet, while in other cases you can be very
pragmatic.

> It is not my job, or your job, to tell plugin and host authors what they

Mmm, I'd like to disagree. Most open source software may be developed
in such conditions - but that is both a strength and a curse. Having
worked some ten years developing software for space and aviation I
can tell you things are different there. And that has some advantages.

> It will all work out eventually. You've been around here long enough to

Yes. But that's no reason to not learn from the past. Which is what
LV2 started out to do...

> This is a bit difficult to decipher. You are saying you think

For anything except synthesis, yes. Not only good enough, but actually
much easier to implement correctly.

> However, making "synthesis modules" an exception is kind of pointless

If 'sample accurate' control would be the only difference between
'general purpose' and 'synthesis' modules I'd agree with you.

But it isn't. 'Polyphonic' is not the same as 'multichannel' for one.
And synthesis modules may require real-time instantiation - no need
for that in case of an effect in a DAW. My conclusion is that the
two are fundamentally different. Which doesn't mean that a plugin
standard couldn't provide both. But probably not by ignoring the
differences.

> It's odd to speak of this like there has been some active decision to

AFAIK, the 'core spec' requires plugins to accept a non-constant nframes:

"Thus the "control rate" is determined by the block size, which is
controlled by the host (and not necessarily constant)."

> It'd have been solved and implemented long long ago if it was brought up

Nothing cloak and dagger about it. If someone is prepared to pay me for
writing a report on something I do have strong opinions about (and very
probably because of that), should I refuse that ? It's a consultancy
job just like any other. And at least one other well-known developer
got the same.

Ciao,

--
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

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Messages in current thread:
[LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 2:43 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 10:02 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Tim E. Real, (Sat May 26, 11:47 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 12:58 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 6:24 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 8:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 6:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 9:00 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 9:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 11:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 12:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Mon May 28, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 5:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Mon May 28, 5:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 7:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Mon May 28, 9:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Fri Jun 1, 10:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Jun 1, 10:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Fri Jun 1, 10:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Jun 1, 10:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat Jun 2, 12:22 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat Jun 2, 2:40 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Tim Goetze, (Sat Jun 2, 9:32 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat Jun 2, 4:16 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Tim Goetze, (Mon Jun 4, 8:08 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 10:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Tue May 29, 3:55 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 8:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 8:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 9:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 10:02 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 12:48 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 11:16 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 4:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Paul Davis, (Sun May 27, 2:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 5:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 7:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 10:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 10:53 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Thorsten Wilms, (Mon May 28, 11:54 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Paul Davis, (Sat May 26, 8:23 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 11:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 8:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Paul Davis, (Sat May 26, 10:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Adrian Knoth, (Sat May 26, 6:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 8:27 pm)