Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions

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To: Fons Adriaensen <fons@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Saturday, May 26, 2012 - 6:24 pm

On Sat, 2012-05-26 at 10:02 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

Yes, I meant w/o buffering. It would be known at init time.

> 'Power of 2' in practice means 'a power of two that is not

This is not a problem. If a plugin exists that requires this
functionality, it won't work in hosts that can't provide that
functionality. Compared to the situation of that plugin not existing at
all, something has been gained, not lost. There is literally no
downside to this situation. Feature, not a bug.

If, as you go on to argue, a fixed size solution is so superior, then
plugins will require it, and in turn hosts will support it.

> The following is part of a report on LV2 I was asked to

It is, for well-known historical reasons, adopted from LADSPA. It's not
"fixed" (You say that because the following argument depends on it, but
it is simply not true).

Starting from LADSPA remains the reason there is a thriving LV2
ecosystem, working, in actual reality, right now, which only continually
gets better. I said years ago 'growing' was the only way to do it, and
here we are: LV2 is doing just fine, and the magical monolithic API that
does everything everybody wants, initially, and correctly, still doesn't
exist. Interesting.

> And allowing an extension to override this is not going to

You criticize LV2 for having control ports, but then say an alternative
is impossible because it would be invasive? This does not make sense.
Ardour supports LADSPA in any case, and several other APIs as well.

This is basically equivalent to saying Ardour (or pretty much any
existing program) could not implement the right solution for this.
Nothing whatsoever to do with LV2 (i.e. would be true of an API that
*only* had the right solution)... but you blame it on LV2 anyway?

> This is the really sad aspect of the situation: LV2 requires

Frankly, this whole thing is more like FUD than a reasonable technical
report, and I don't really consider that an appropriate thing to do when
consulted as an expert to report on a technology. You have misled
whoever you wrote this for.

I could write a long rebuttal here, but that would just get tedious. I
will simply summarize:

100% of the things you blame on LV2 here are either:

1) Inherent to the problem/solution
2) Nothing to do with LV2 at all

and 100% of the things you say can't happen - can.

Rather than argue about it, which history has shown to be pointless, I
will simply prove it, by actually backing up my talk with action.

Please describe your good solution (if you indeed even have one), and
(if it is actually good) I will implement it.

I'll make a spec for it.

I'll implement a plugin that uses it.

I'll implement it in Ardour, among others.

I'll make it all work just fine together, personally. All you have to
do is describe it.

FUD, or solution. Your choice. I'll be over here solving problems if
you need me.

-dr

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Messages in current thread:
[LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 2:43 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 10:02 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Tim E. Real, (Sat May 26, 11:47 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 12:58 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 6:24 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 8:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 6:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 9:00 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 9:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 11:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 12:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Mon May 28, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 5:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Mon May 28, 5:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 7:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Mon May 28, 9:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Fri Jun 1, 10:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Jun 1, 10:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Fri Jun 1, 10:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Jun 1, 10:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat Jun 2, 12:22 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat Jun 2, 2:40 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Tim Goetze, (Sat Jun 2, 9:32 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat Jun 2, 4:16 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Tim Goetze, (Mon Jun 4, 8:08 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 10:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Tue May 29, 3:55 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 8:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Stefano D'Angelo, (Sun May 27, 8:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 9:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 10:02 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 12:48 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 11:16 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 4:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Paul Davis, (Sun May 27, 2:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 5:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun May 27, 7:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sun May 27, 10:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon May 28, 10:53 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Thorsten Wilms, (Mon May 28, 11:54 am)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Paul Davis, (Sat May 26, 8:23 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 11:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat May 26, 8:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Paul Davis, (Sat May 26, 10:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, Adrian Knoth, (Sat May 26, 6:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] Plugin buffer size restrictions, David Robillard, (Sat May 26, 8:27 pm)