Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files

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To: Rui Nuno Capela <rncbc@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Thursday, March 29, 2012 - 11:41 pm

On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 22:23 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:

It's indeed utopian to think that some centralized special magic program
and protocol and file format and whatever else will actually get
universally adopted.

However, files and directories and links are anything but
unrealistically utopian. That's my point.

With all due respect, Emanuel, you can see here what happens when you
make a big complicated mess out of things and try to ram technology down
implementer's throats without justification: they simply reject it
outright as a utopian fantasy.

Achieving archival/etc is *trivial* without any fancy/annoying session
management crap whatsoever. If apps want to save in a way that prevents
it, they will always be able to, however if they do, there is *one*
simple rule that makes *all* the mentioned functionality possible that
has nothing to do with any specific session manager API/protocol/file
formats/etc whatsoever:

* All references to files outside the session directory must be a
symlink to that file

That's it. No APIS, no protocols, no session manager file stores, no
redundant data that may not match reality, no egregious rules. There's
not even a requirement for a session manager to be involved whatsoever,
if an app saves this way independently you can archive its sessions with
tar or whatever just the same. If you did want a fancy GUI archival
tool that reports what files are used and whatever else, you could write
one, and it wouldn't even depend on the session manager at all - and I
don't mean it would loosely depend on it by only using OSC or whatever,
I mean it would not depend on it *at all*, nor would it depend on any
file format[1]. All even vaguely common languages have everything
required in their standard library, right now. All of that Just
Works-eyness is because it's a simple idea, and doesn't use anything
that hasn't been baked in to the OS for literally decades. It doesn't
get much less unrealistically utopian than this.

Erecting some fantastic non-existent architecture to achieve, in one
special circumstance, what this simple rule does, is a folly doomed for
failure. To really distill it down, since we're on a "reality" trip:
you can either try to get people to adopt this convention, or you can
not have archivable/distributable sessions. There is no option C.

That said, if I'm overlooking something, do tell (i.e. why, exactly, is
this simple plan not sufficient?), because from where I'm standing it's
a real mystery why we are acting like this is so damned complicated.

It's not. At all.

-dr

[1] Try to sell any file format to this crowd and see how far you get...

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Messages in current thread:
[LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Thu Mar 29, 1:35 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Thu Mar 29, 1:44 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Joel Roth, (Tue Apr 3, 5:49 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rncbc, (Tue Apr 3, 9:05 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Tue Apr 3, 9:39 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rncbc, (Tue Apr 3, 10:56 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Tue Apr 3, 2:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Tue Apr 3, 12:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Tue Apr 3, 5:03 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, David Robillard, (Wed Apr 4, 11:25 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Thu Apr 5, 11:16 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Dennis Schulmeister, (Thu Apr 5, 6:11 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, David Robillard, (Thu Apr 5, 5:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Thu Apr 5, 6:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Thu Apr 5, 8:39 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, David Robillard, (Thu Apr 5, 6:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Apr 5, 12:16 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Thu Apr 5, 2:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Apr 5, 2:49 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Thu Apr 5, 4:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, David Robillard, (Thu Apr 5, 5:10 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 4, 11:18 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Wed Apr 4, 1:25 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Wed Apr 4, 1:51 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 4, 2:38 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Wed Apr 4, 4:31 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Apr 4, 12:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Wed Apr 4, 4:20 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Wed Apr 4, 8:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Wed Apr 4, 10:23 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Wed Apr 4, 10:28 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Apr 4, 6:13 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 4, 12:36 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Apr 4, 2:38 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 4, 2:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Apr 4, 3:46 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 4, 4:20 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Apr 4, 6:50 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 4, 7:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, David Robillard, (Wed Apr 4, 9:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 4, 10:45 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 4, 8:13 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Joel Roth, (Fri Apr 6, 7:06 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Mon Apr 9, 3:28 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Apr 9, 4:03 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Mon Apr 9, 4:35 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Apr 9, 5:10 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 11, 12:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Wed Apr 11, 4:32 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Dave Phillips, (Wed Apr 11, 1:18 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 11, 1:37 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Renato, (Wed Apr 11, 2:31 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Fri Apr 6, 8:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Joel Roth, (Sun Apr 8, 5:38 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Apr 4, 3:21 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Tue Apr 3, 5:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Louigi Verona, (Wed Apr 4, 8:12 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Wed Apr 4, 9:06 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Tue Apr 3, 1:35 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Tue Apr 3, 5:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Tue Apr 3, 9:42 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Thu Mar 29, 9:23 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Fri Mar 30, 1:48 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Fri Mar 30, 9:01 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Paul Davis, (Fri Mar 30, 10:27 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Mon Apr 2, 4:12 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Mon Apr 2, 6:29 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Paul Giblock, (Mon Apr 2, 6:39 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Mon Apr 2, 6:51 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Paul Giblock, (Mon Apr 2, 7:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Mon Apr 2, 7:11 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Thomas Vecchione, (Mon Apr 2, 7:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Tim Westbrook, (Mon Apr 2, 7:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Mon Apr 2, 8:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Mon Apr 2, 5:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Mon Apr 2, 6:29 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Mon Apr 2, 7:23 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Mon Apr 2, 8:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Tue Apr 3, 6:59 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Tue Apr 3, 7:05 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Nils, (Tue Apr 3, 9:21 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Tue Apr 3, 1:44 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Louigi Verona, (Tue Apr 3, 2:18 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Tue Apr 3, 2:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, rosea.grammostola, (Fri Mar 30, 8:03 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, David Robillard, (Thu Mar 29, 11:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, J. Liles, (Fri Mar 30, 1:29 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Emanuel Rumpf, (Fri Mar 30, 3:32 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Lieven Moors, (Fri Mar 30, 7:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Mar 30, 8:53 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Lieven Moors, (Fri Mar 30, 10:13 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, David Robillard, (Fri Mar 30, 9:57 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Thomas Vecchione, (Fri Mar 30, 9:14 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Mar 30, 9:28 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Fri Mar 30, 10:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Thomas Vecchione, (Fri Mar 30, 9:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, David Robillard, (Fri Mar 30, 2:06 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Louigi Verona, (Fri Mar 30, 6:20 am)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Mar 29, 9:45 pm)
Re: [LAD] NSM - handling large files, Rui Nuno Capela, (Thu Mar 29, 10:40 pm)