Re: [LAD] Non Session Management

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To: Fons Adriaensen <fons@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 - 12:15 am

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On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 10:32:38PM +0200, Emanuel Rumpf wrote:

Fons, I'd like to hear more about this use case. Currently one of the
strong points of NSM is that applications with heavy state (e.g. large
audio files) know *exactly* where to put the state at the time they join
the session. This eliminates the need for undesirable hacks with just
storing a link to the heavy state (as was generally required with LASH). I
felt like this was one of the primary requirements of Non-DAW which was not
addressed by other session managers. But as far as sharing heavy state
between multiple clients in a session, I have not considered the issue. It
is certainly possible to permit something like that, and even as it is
right now two clients could work something out peer-to-peer using the NSM
server's 'broadcast' capability. If several different sessions need to
share the same data, then I would say that it's reasonable just to have it
stored outside of the session root, preferrably symlinked from within the
session so that it could be picked up by a simple archiving process.

Perhaps someone in a situation like this might also consider using some
kind of deduplicating filesystem to store their data and remove the
complexity to the systems level.

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On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Fons Ad=
riaensen <fons@=
linuxaudio.org
> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 10:32:38PM +0200, Emanuel Rumpf w=
rote:

> - where would audio apps store large (audio) files ? a custom path ?

That is something that needs to be looked at.

In my use cases it is very common for several projects to use
the same recorded tracks, and that could be a few gigabytes.
When using non-destructive editing these are de facto read-only,
so they can be shared.

An app can always cheat the SM. Even if the SM forbids symbolic
links in a session directory, all it takes for an app is saving
a directory path as part of the current configuration.

But it would be better if the SM were aware of the existence
of such data, so that it could e.g. show of list of it upon
request. This would then require apps to explicitly declare
paths to external data. It would probably be a rather simple
extension to NSM.
Fons, I'd like=
to hear more about this use case. Currently one of the strong points of NS=
M is that applications with heavy state (e.g. large audio files) know *exac=
tly* where to put the state at the time they join the session. This elimina=
tes the need for undesirable hacks with just storing a link to the heavy st=
ate (as was generally required with LASH). I felt like this was one of the =
primary requirements of Non-DAW which was not addressed by other session ma=
nagers. But as far as sharing heavy state between multiple clients in a ses=
sion, I have not considered the issue. It is certainly possible to permit s=
omething like that, and even as it is right now two clients could work some=
thing out peer-to-peer using the NSM server's 'broadcast' capab=
ility. If several different sessions need to share the same data, then I wo=
uld say that it's reasonable just to have it stored outside of the sess=
ion root, preferrably symlinked from within the session so that it could be=
picked up by a simple archiving process.
Perhaps someone in a situation like this might also consider using some=
kind of deduplicating filesystem to store their data and remove the comple=
xity to the systems level.=C2=A0

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Messages in current thread:
[LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 22, 10:55 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Thu Mar 22, 4:52 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 22, 6:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Thu Mar 22, 3:10 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Sat Mar 24, 3:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Mar 24, 10:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 29, 9:24 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Thu Mar 29, 1:18 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Louigi Verona, (Thu Mar 29, 10:02 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 29, 10:41 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 29, 11:08 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, thijs van severen, (Thu Mar 29, 10:30 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 29, 10:46 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, thijs van severen, (Thu Mar 29, 11:17 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Thu Mar 29, 2:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 29, 2:35 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 29, 11:21 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, thijs van severen, (Thu Mar 29, 11:26 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 29, 11:34 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Mon Mar 26, 3:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Louigi Verona, (Mon Mar 26, 3:51 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Mon Mar 26, 4:16 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Mon Mar 26, 6:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Mon Mar 26, 8:32 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Mon Mar 26, 9:47 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Mar 28, 7:25 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, J. Liles, (Wed Mar 28, 8:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Mar 28, 9:20 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Wed Mar 28, 9:28 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Mar 26, 9:40 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, J. Liles, (Tue Mar 27, 12:15 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Fons Adriaensen, (Tue Mar 27, 7:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Lieven Moors, (Wed Mar 28, 9:28 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Fons Adriaensen, (Wed Mar 28, 8:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Tue Mar 27, 8:45 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Wed Mar 28, 1:28 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 28, 3:46 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Wed Mar 28, 12:24 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Burkhard W├Âlfel, (Fri Mar 30, 2:46 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Fri Mar 30, 5:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 28, 5:26 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, thijs van severen, (Wed Mar 28, 1:36 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Renato, (Wed Mar 28, 4:35 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 28, 5:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Wed Mar 28, 6:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 28, 6:53 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Thu Mar 29, 1:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Thu Mar 29, 6:21 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Mon Apr 2, 9:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Wed Mar 28, 12:12 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Mon Mar 26, 11:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Tue Mar 27, 1:23 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Tue Mar 27, 12:24 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 28, 3:43 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Wed Mar 28, 12:11 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 28, 5:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Mon Mar 26, 9:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, J. Liles, (Mon Mar 26, 7:04 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Louigi Verona, (Mon Mar 26, 4:21 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Mon Mar 26, 4:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Diego Simak, (Mon Mar 26, 8:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Emanuel Rumpf, (Mon Mar 26, 8:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Diego Simak, (Mon Mar 26, 9:39 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, thijs van severen, (Thu Mar 22, 11:59 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, David Robillard, (Thu Mar 22, 2:54 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 22, 12:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Harry van Haaren, (Thu Mar 22, 1:52 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 22, 3:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Tim E. Real, (Sun Mar 25, 7:35 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Mar 25, 10:44 am)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, thijs van severen, (Thu Mar 22, 12:57 pm)
Re: [LAD] Non Session Management, rosea.grammostola, (Thu Mar 22, 12:53 pm)