Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins

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To: Olivier Guilyardi <list@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Tuesday, March 1, 2011 - 11:24 pm

On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 19:36 +0100, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:

... "the host would " ;)

Going to something in a web browser doesn't involve any of that. It
doesn't involve anything on the "thing with a UI on it" whatsoever
except "go to this URL in your web browser". i.e. no platform specific
native code (including GL) is required, at all, to operate the UI. It'd
work on a hypothetical(*) tablet you can't even install software on
whatsoever.

> The plugin would expose a draw() callback

Probably, since the host deals with all the non-portable things. What
you describe here sounds like how a GL UI type should indeed work. It
would be better if there was some equivalent of a "widget" the UI could
return, but I guess that is not the case for GL.

So far, nobody has showed up with a desire to write a GL plugin UI.
Extensions don't get invented until there's an actual use for them. If
someone does, drop by lv2-devel, and we'll get this done (or don't, and
just do it).

The next SLV2 will abstract away UI types, so if/when this gets
invented, it will magically just work in existing hosts, since embedding
GL in most toolkits is possible.

> > Do I think GL is the thing to use _if you want to, and can deploy,

Yes, partially...

> To me, this is not a plugin UI,

... except a plugin could provide such a (plugin specific) UI as well.
My "dirg" plugin provides a web-based grid UI in the browser, for
example. Currently it just does this by running its own web server, but
this needs to be pushed up to the host for obvious reasons.

> this is the absence of plugin specific UI, and the kind of thing which you can

"special web UI fragments", or, in other words, a plugin specific UI.
Yep.

> Regarding remote controllers.. Well this is already in the wild, tablets

Same kind of realm as this stuff, yes, except the UI design is
integrated with the host and plugins, and is roughly infinity times
slicker as a result.

> I think that I understand you idea of doing this with a browser. No need to

My LV2 host /is/ an LV2 plugin ;) Think about the implications of that
for a minute and a big lightbulb should go off (Hint: Want to make
plugins with universal UIs? Don't want to write code?)

Is it about web-based controllers on a tablet or whatever? Yes. But it
is not /only/ about that. If you have such a UI, well, it works just
fine on the PC too. One UI written, both problems solved, objectively
better solution - unless you need the performance of OpenGL. I don't
deny that sometimes you do, but personally I'm more into making music
and less into fancy screenshots and idiotic pixmaps of physical boxes or
whatever.

Hopefully its fast enough. Seems fine. Good enough for controllers and
basic/loop/pattern sequencing, maybe not for actually playing keys and
pads and whatnot.

> That said, I don't think that I can help some more here. I'm more into simple

Having remotes is obviously a good "every day music task" sort of thing.
Ditto being able to easily build UIs for plugins or collections of
plugins, remote or not. Users around here have been vocally pining for
such a thing for ages. Don't assume that just because a technology is
novel it's some abstract theoretical wank. The point here is entirely
pragmatic and user focused.

-dr

(* Or perhaps not so hypothetical if you consider the implications of
trying to put free software on an iPad)

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Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sat Feb 26, 10:37 am)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Feb 25, 7:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Feb 25, 7:14 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Feb 25, 7:29 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Feb 25, 8:21 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Feb 25, 8:26 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Feb 25, 8:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Mar 11, 11:08 am)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Mar 18, 5:06 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Mar 18, 11:44 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Thu Mar 24, 10:10 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Sun Mar 27, 4:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Mar 11, 6:40 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Sat Feb 26, 4:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Sat Feb 26, 6:25 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Sat Feb 26, 6:32 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Mon Feb 28, 4:24 pm)
[LAD] Lightweight LV2 implementation (Was: RDF libraries), David Robillard, (Thu Sep 29, 5:48 am)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Sat Feb 26, 5:28 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Sat Feb 26, 6:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Giuseppe Zompatori, (Sun Feb 27, 4:04 am)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Giuseppe Zompatori, (Sun Feb 27, 12:55 pm)
Re: [LAD] Audio effects on Android, Olivier Guilyardi, (Mon Feb 28, 5:03 pm)
Re: [LAD] Audio effects on Android, Stefano D'Angelo, (Tue Mar 1, 12:53 pm)
Re: [LAD] Audio effects on Android, Olivier Guilyardi, (Tue Mar 1, 4:21 pm)
Re: [LAD] Audio effects on Android, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 7:18 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Sat Feb 26, 7:10 pm)
Re: [LAD] RDF libraries, was Re: [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution R..., Olivier Guilyardi, (Sat Feb 26, 6:44 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Mon Feb 28, 8:51 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Tue Mar 1, 12:00 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Tue Mar 1, 6:36 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Tue Mar 1, 11:24 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Wed Mar 2, 1:20 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 2, 5:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Wed Mar 2, 6:31 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 2, 7:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 7:55 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 2, 9:27 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 10:45 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Wed Mar 2, 9:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 10:44 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 2, 10:00 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Wed Mar 2, 11:14 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 2, 11:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Fons Adriaensen, (Wed Mar 2, 10:49 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Thu Mar 3, 10:36 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Thu Mar 3, 12:39 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Mar 3, 1:27 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Fri Mar 4, 12:53 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Fri Mar 4, 7:40 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Pedro Alves, (Fri Mar 4, 9:45 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Sat Mar 5, 12:05 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Paul Davis, (Fri Mar 4, 10:00 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Pedro Alves, (Fri Mar 4, 10:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Sat Mar 5, 12:07 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Mar 4, 2:25 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Fri Mar 4, 7:53 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Sat Mar 5, 12:10 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Fri Mar 4, 2:40 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Mar 4, 3:00 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Mar 4, 2:14 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Fri Mar 4, 2:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 11:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Mar 3, 12:03 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, gene heskett, (Thu Mar 3, 2:33 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Mar 3, 11:15 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, gene heskett, (Fri Mar 4, 3:06 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 10:46 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 2, 8:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 10:36 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Thu Mar 3, 12:06 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 2, 10:58 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 11:14 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 2, 9:38 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Paul Giblock, (Wed Mar 2, 10:16 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 10:49 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Paul Giblock, (Wed Mar 2, 11:02 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Thu Mar 3, 12:27 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Thu Mar 3, 10:05 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Fri Mar 4, 12:06 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Mar 4, 12:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Fri Mar 4, 7:28 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 11:20 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Gabriel M. Beddingfield, (Wed Mar 2, 11:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Chris Cannam, (Wed Mar 2, 8:44 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 2, 8:47 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 2, 1:27 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Wed Mar 2, 2:11 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Wed Mar 2, 2:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Fri Mar 11, 11:03 am)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 2, 4:58 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Wed Mar 2, 5:25 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Paul Davis, (Wed Mar 2, 5:29 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Wed Mar 2, 7:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 2, 6:03 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Wed Mar 2, 3:58 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Wed Mar 2, 4:57 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Tue Mar 1, 1:13 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Tue Mar 1, 3:47 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Mon Feb 28, 9:37 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Olivier Guilyardi, (Tue Mar 1, 5:53 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Tue Mar 1, 5:55 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, Stefano D'Angelo, (Tue Mar 1, 6:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Tue Mar 1, 10:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] Portable user interfaces for LV2 plugins, David Robillard, (Tue Mar 1, 12:02 am)