Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb

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To: Rui Nuno Capela <rncbc@...>
Cc: <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - 2:06 am

On Mon, 2011-02-21 at 22:53 +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote:

The UI simply provides a widget of some type (e.g. GtkWidget). Whatever
the host can/does with this is not a feature of the UI. Your question is
a bit misleading (it is obviously impossible to use a GtkWidget without
linking to Gtk). Technically the answer to your question is yes, since
it is possible to XEmbed a GtkWidget. If you mean to point out that the
current situation is inadequate, there's no disagreement there - there
is currently no good solution to that problem (i.e. hosts /can/ do it,
with a lot of work and code duplication, but this is not a good
solution). There is indeed a problem here, but it is a host-side one.

The question is /what/ should link to Gtk. You say not the host, and I
agree. We therefore need something in-between then host and the e.g. Gtk
UI implementation. There are two options:

* Throw out embedding and various other desirable features, and
re-implement this bridging in every single UI (the external UI
extension's strategy). Not everyone is happy: nice features become
impossible, and copy/paste code duplication is rampant.

* Keep all the desirable features when possible, gracefully degrade
when not, and implement this bridging once in a library. Everyone is
happy: anything possible is, uh, possible, proper code reuse means all
hosts work correctly for free, bugs/features need implementing once,
implementing a UI or UI support becomes much simpler (increasing
adoption), neither host nor UI authors need to care about cross-toolkit
compatibility, etc.

The latter is What Needs Doing. There is IMO no question about that,
it's all win. There are a few details to sort out, though:

The proposed library would inherently need to link to Gtk. This means
the host doesn't directly link to / depend on Gtk, but the library ends
up depending on all toolkits, so from a package perspective every host
ends up depending on every toolkit, which is no good. So, the library
will need to be implemented in several dynamically loaded modules
(ideally packaged separately). I think this is probably the way to go.

If even an indirect dynamic linkage like this is a problem (why?), then
a process based solution is also possible. This will probably be needed
for new stuff like UIs in other languages (e.g. python), remote/web UIs,
etc. I don't think doing it this way is wise/necessary for the current
crop of hosts/UIS, though (all C/C++), i.e. this is non-pressing future
work that shouldn't affect the library API.

> oh, and did i say that the gtkmm based ones are even crappier in that

The Gtkmm initialisation problem does suck(*), but linking to gtkmm is
no more outrageous than any other toolkit. Again, just another example
of why this all needs to be wrapped up in a library where we can solve
it once, correctly.

-dr

(* There is, however a simple solution I won't go into now that is also
useful for a few other similar situations)

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Messages in current thread:
[LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Tom Szilagyi, (Thu Jan 13, 6:37 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Tom Szilagyi, (Fri Jan 14, 8:29 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Wed Feb 9, 4:51 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Chris Cannam, (Wed Feb 23, 8:21 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Wed Feb 23, 10:13 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 11:47 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 24, 4:57 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Thu Feb 24, 1:00 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Coccoli, (Thu Feb 10, 5:54 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Mon Feb 21, 7:40 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Feb 9, 7:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Mon Feb 21, 7:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Jeremy Salwen, (Tue Feb 22, 4:53 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 6:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Stefano D'Angelo, (Tue Feb 22, 6:50 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 8:29 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Wed Feb 23, 10:20 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Wed Feb 23, 4:32 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Philipp Überbacher, (Tue Feb 22, 10:31 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Wed Feb 23, 9:52 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Philipp Überbacher, (Wed Feb 23, 11:00 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Wed Feb 23, 1:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Wed Feb 23, 3:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Wed Feb 23, 4:55 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Gordon JC Pearce, (Wed Feb 23, 10:58 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 24, 12:55 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 24, 12:23 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 12:11 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Gordon JC Pearce, (Thu Feb 24, 12:33 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 12:39 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 12:42 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 11:43 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 24, 1:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 2:46 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 1:45 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 1:02 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 3:23 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 4:46 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Sat Feb 26, 3:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Mark Knecht, (Sun Feb 27, 12:18 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 27, 1:17 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Feb 27, 12:05 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Sun Feb 27, 9:38 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Andres Cabrera, (Sun Feb 27, 10:41 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Thomas Vecchione, (Sun Feb 27, 11:21 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Sun Feb 27, 1:19 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Sat Feb 26, 3:52 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Renato, (Sat Feb 26, 9:44 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 8:45 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 24, 9:20 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 9:39 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 24, 11:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 25, 12:34 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Fri Feb 25, 5:52 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Fri Feb 25, 6:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Giblock, (Fri Feb 25, 8:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Jens M Andreasen, (Fri Feb 25, 12:43 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 25, 11:28 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Jens M Andreasen, (Fri Feb 25, 1:03 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Joel Roth, (Sat Feb 26, 4:59 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Thu Feb 24, 10:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 10:13 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 9:13 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 9:58 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Nick Copeland, (Thu Feb 24, 10:02 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Thu Feb 24, 5:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, torbenh, (Thu Feb 24, 4:28 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 4:31 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Thu Feb 24, 12:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Thorsten Wilms, (Thu Feb 24, 12:08 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 24, 5:11 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Arnold Krille, (Thu Feb 24, 6:35 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Michael Bechard, (Thu Feb 24, 6:49 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Harry Van Haaren, (Thu Feb 24, 8:11 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Michael Bechard, (Thu Feb 24, 8:13 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 24, 6:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Thu Feb 24, 12:29 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Alexandre Prokoudine, (Wed Feb 23, 2:53 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Wed Feb 23, 10:39 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Folderol, (Wed Feb 23, 1:42 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Nick Copeland, (Tue Feb 22, 8:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Tue Feb 22, 6:55 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 8:36 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Rui Nuno Capela, (Mon Feb 21, 8:27 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Mon Feb 21, 10:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Rui Nuno Capela, (Mon Feb 21, 11:18 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 2:56 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Rui Nuno Capela, (Tue Feb 22, 9:44 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, michael noble, (Wed Feb 23, 3:33 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Wed Feb 23, 8:00 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Feb 23, 9:03 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Wed Feb 23, 4:17 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, torbenh, (Wed Feb 23, 9:57 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Feb 23, 11:03 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Wed Feb 23, 5:23 pm)
[LAD] libsuil (was: IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb), Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Feb 23, 7:03 pm)
Re: [LAD] libsuil (was: IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb), David Robillard, (Wed Feb 23, 7:39 pm)
Re: [LAD] libsuil, Rui Nuno Capela, (Wed Feb 23, 8:11 pm)
Re: [LAD] libsuil, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 24, 9:21 am)
Re: [LAD] libsuil, Rui Nuno Capela, (Thu Feb 24, 9:39 am)
Re: [LAD] libsuil, David Robillard, (Thu Feb 24, 4:46 pm)
Re: [LAD] libsuil, David Robillard, (Wed Feb 23, 9:29 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, torbenh, (Wed Feb 23, 11:44 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Rui Nuno Capela, (Tue Feb 22, 6:31 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 8:02 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Giblock, (Tue Feb 22, 10:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Wed Feb 23, 1:22 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Giblock, (Wed Feb 23, 1:33 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Gabriel M. Beddingfield, (Wed Feb 23, 1:31 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Mon Feb 21, 8:32 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Rui Nuno Capela, (Mon Feb 21, 10:53 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 2:06 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Philipp Überbacher, (Fri Jan 14, 8:44 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Jan 15, 12:22 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Jan 15, 12:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Ralf Mardorf, (Sat Jan 15, 12:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Tom Szilagyi, (Fri Jan 14, 10:29 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Mon Feb 21, 7:32 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Feb 21, 8:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Mon Feb 21, 10:58 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Mon Feb 21, 11:12 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 2:27 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Tue Feb 22, 12:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 5:52 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Tue Feb 22, 2:14 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Philipp Überbacher, (Tue Feb 22, 4:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Gabriel M. Beddingfield, (Tue Feb 22, 6:54 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Tue Feb 22, 4:57 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Philipp Überbacher, (Tue Feb 22, 8:50 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Tue Feb 22, 12:18 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Tue Feb 22, 1:46 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Nick Copeland, (Tue Feb 22, 12:45 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Cornette, (Wed Feb 23, 2:57 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Tue Feb 22, 9:55 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Sean Bolton, (Tue Feb 22, 5:06 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Gabriel M. Beddingfield, (Tue Feb 22, 1:31 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Tue Feb 22, 1:11 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Nick Copeland, (Tue Feb 22, 1:46 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Tue Feb 22, 4:02 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Nick Copeland, (Tue Feb 22, 6:33 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Fons Adriaensen, (Tue Feb 22, 7:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 9:14 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Tue Feb 22, 10:10 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Philipp Überbacher, (Tue Feb 22, 9:31 pm)
[LAD] On LAD (WAS: Re: [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb), David Robillard, (Wed Feb 23, 1:11 am)
Re: [LAD] On LAD (WAS: Re: [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb), Lorenzo Sutton, (Wed Feb 23, 10:29 am)
Re: [LAD] On LAD (WAS: Re: [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb), Alexandre Prokoudine, (Wed Feb 23, 9:40 am)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Nick Copeland, (Tue Feb 22, 8:36 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Arnold Krille, (Tue Feb 22, 8:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Tue Feb 22, 8:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Nick Copeland, (Tue Feb 22, 9:11 pm)
Re: [LAD] [OT] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Devin Anderson, (Tue Feb 22, 9:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Paul Davis, (Tue Feb 22, 1:50 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Tom Szilagyi, (Tue Feb 22, 1:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, David Robillard, (Tue Feb 22, 3:00 am)
Re: [LAD] [ANN] IR: LV2 Convolution Reverb, Michael Beer, (Thu Jan 13, 9:00 pm)