linuxaudio.org

On Mon, 2011-02-21 at 20:56 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:

quoted text
> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 02:30:25PM -0500, David Robillard wrote:

>

> > > I just did a simple test:

> > >

> > > * added a few lines (< 10) of code to jaaa,

> > > * started Ardour and opened its 'Locations' window,

> > > * and had jaaa running within it in seconds.

> > >

> > > And that's wihout any cooperation from Ardour. A plugin could use

> > > whatever X11 toolkit it likes and with minimal support from the host

> > > do the same. Apart from that it would need some cooperation to transfer

> > > data between the dsp code and the GUI, but this can be made almost

> > > transparent to the host.

> >

> > This is currently a possibility, but it throws away the ability to do

> > things possible when the toolkits do match (notably embedding the GUI in

> > another window, such as the presets/etc bar ardour adds to the top).

>

> Embedding the GUI in whatever window you like (e.g. a channel strip)

> is just the same thing. The changes I made to jaaa made it accept a

> window ID instead of its own top level parent window. It could equally

> well accept parameters that define a rectangle in a host's window. And

> if the host doesn't trust the plugin not to go outside its assigned

> area it can just create a window for the plugin to use and have peace.

>

> > It is also not portable (depends on X11),

>

> I don't care about any system that doesn't support X11. I don't even

> care about some that do.

Which is why yours is a poor solution. It loses much, and gains little

if anything.  Making a UNIX only plugin or UI is fine. Making a UNIX

only plugin API is (in this case) stupid.
You /can/ implement "I don't give a damn about anything but "

plugin UIs (or hosts) right now, by design. I have always strongly

advocated this. You can't, however, use some nonexistent authority to

force all the other developers to agree - many (and in this case

virtually all) don't. Try and make a monolithic kitchen sink plugin API

like that and watch as everyone outright rejects the entire thing

instead of little replaceable slivers of it...
Yours is a valid perspective for UI and host authors. It is a terrible

one from the API designer perspective. The good design lets you and

others work only with your preferred technology - and interoperate with

others with different tastes.  This is possible, feasible, and makes

more developers and users happy.  It is, in other words, an objectively

much better solution.
-dr
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