Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps.

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To: <fons@...>, <linux-audio-dev@...>
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 12:20 am

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> > If the user sends a 20khz sine wave into an application's

Why is this a bad design or even low quality? Long before FM=20
synthesis was born Moog allowed this to be done and a whole
industry grew out of the result - he could modulate his oscillators
frequency from his oscillators frequencies - who cares if this is freq
or gain. It is very short sighted to suggest that because you think=20
something should not be done then it is thus a bad thing.

Look at the ARP 2600=2C it allowed just this to be experimented with.
Look at the Korg MS-20=2C look at a load of synths. Then take your
clappers off and consider what might come out of a mixer that=20
allowed you to do the same.

The 1/16 as suitable for synths is also ludicrous. There are a few
heads out there arguing that with the correct algorithms there is
no real reason that analogue should sound so much better than
digital. OK=2C it does now=2C probably because some people keep on=20
arguing that quantisation of parameters 'would be enough' as they
cannot be hacked to have their code to the necessary legwork.

BTW=2C why is a mixer a 'normal' audio app? If it is functioning on a
computer then isn't it mixing other audio apps=2C even if they are
just capture processes? Are they then not 'normal' or is that just
the way you see them?

Fons=2C does your convolution algorithm cut corners? I doubt it as
it is recognised generally as an amazing peice of work. Why do=20
you then think that cutting corners elsewhere is acceptable?

Regards=2C nick

=20
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&gt=3B &gt=3B If the user sends a 20khz sine wave into an application's=
&gt=3B &gt=3B "volume" port that's either their mistake=2C or its exactly&gt=3B &gt=3B what they wanted to do.&gt=3B &gt=3B If that is wha=
t they want to do they should use the right&gt=3B tool=2C wich would be=
ring modulator in a synth. I'd expect&gt=3B synths to use audio rate c=
ontrols at least for some units=2C&gt=3B even if in almost all cases 1/=
16 would be enough.&gt=3B &gt=3B If a 'normal' audio app with a vol=
ume control (e.g. a mixer)&gt=3B would actually accept a 20kHz sine wav=
e as a control signal&gt=3B then I'd consider it to be of extremely low=
quality and bad&gt=3B design. The same app would happily add any noise=
present on&gt=3B its controls to its signals and I wouldn't trust it f=
or any&gt=3B serious work. It's sort the software equivalent of using&gt=3B cheap low-quality analog faders.Why is this a bad design o=
r even low quality? Long before FM synthesis was born Moog allowed this=
to be done and a wholeindustry grew out of the result - he could modul=
ate his oscillatorsfrequency from his oscillators frequencies - who car=
es if this is freqor gain. It is very short sighted to suggest that bec=
ause you think something should not be done then it is thus a bad thing=
.Look at the ARP 2600=2C it allowed just this to be experimented wi=
th.Look at the Korg MS-20=2C look at a load of synths. Then take yourclappers off and consider what might come out of a mixer that allowed=
you to do the same.The 1/16 as suitable for synths is also ludicro=
us. There are a fewheads out there arguing that with the correct algori=
thms there isno real reason that analogue should sound so much better t=
handigital. OK=2C it does now=2C probably because some people keep on <=
br>arguing that quantisation of parameters 'would be enough' as theycan=
not be hacked to have their code to the necessary legwork.BTW=2C wh=
y is a mixer a 'normal' audio app? If it is functioning on acomputer th=
en isn't it mixing other audio apps=2C even&nbsp=3B if they arejust cap=
ture processes? Are they then not 'normal' or is that justthe way you s=
ee them?Fons=2C does your convolution algorithm cut corners? I doub=
t it asit is recognised generally as an amazing peice of work. Why do <=
br>you then think that cutting corners elsewhere is acceptable?Rega=
rds=2C nick Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. =
Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.
=

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Messages in current thread:
[LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Thu Feb 18, 9:54 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Thu Feb 18, 11:19 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Thu Feb 18, 11:38 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Thu Feb 18, 12:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., torbenh, (Thu Feb 18, 11:33 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Thu Feb 18, 11:47 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., torbenh, (Thu Feb 18, 11:26 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Thu Feb 18, 10:13 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Thu Feb 18, 10:32 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Julien 'Lta' BALLET, (Thu Feb 18, 10:30 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., , (Thu Feb 18, 4:36 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 18, 4:43 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., , (Thu Feb 18, 5:14 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., torbenh, (Fri Feb 19, 2:50 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 19, 12:50 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., torbenh, (Sat Feb 20, 6:30 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., , (Sat Feb 20, 12:27 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Paul Davis, (Sat Feb 20, 12:46 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Fri Feb 19, 1:05 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 19, 1:44 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., nescivi, (Sat Mar 6, 5:10 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., torbenh, (Sat Feb 20, 5:14 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Fri Feb 19, 1:20 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 19, 1:48 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Simon Jenkins, (Fri Feb 19, 2:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 19, 2:53 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Fri Feb 19, 1:31 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Thu Feb 18, 5:32 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Simon Jenkins, (Fri Feb 19, 2:00 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 19, 2:32 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Simon Jenkins, (Fri Feb 19, 2:56 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Fons Adriaensen, (Fri Feb 19, 3:31 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Nick Copeland, (Sat Feb 20, 12:20 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Simon Jenkins, (Fri Feb 19, 4:30 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Paul Davis, (Fri Feb 19, 4:41 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Jörn Nettingsmeier, (Fri Feb 19, 6:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Simon Jenkins, (Fri Feb 19, 7:44 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., , (Fri Feb 19, 8:59 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Simon Jenkins, (Fri Feb 19, 9:01 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., , (Fri Feb 19, 9:07 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Simon Jenkins, (Fri Feb 19, 9:39 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., , (Fri Feb 19, 10:15 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Fri Feb 19, 9:09 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., , (Fri Feb 19, 5:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Paul Davis, (Fri Feb 19, 5:39 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., , (Fri Feb 19, 6:29 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Paul Davis, (Thu Feb 18, 5:38 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Julien 'Lta' BALLET, (Thu Feb 18, 7:34 pm)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., torbenh, (Thu Feb 18, 10:52 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., alex stone, (Thu Feb 18, 10:39 am)
Re: [LAD] CV data protocol in apps., Nick Copeland, (Thu Feb 18, 1:40 pm)