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| ssj71 | which hosts have a tap tempo? | 17:55 |
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| rgareus | ssj71: other than ardour? | 18:29 |
| rgareus | (and its derivatives) | 18:30 |
| rgareus | ssj71: Suppose jalv + jack_transport (commandline util) can set a LV2 plugin tempo, also the MOD supplies musical-time ; but those are fixed, no tempo-map, nor vari-speed | 18:31 |
| rgareus | ssj71: I'm pretty sure qtractor also support tempo-maps, but not 100% certain. | 18:32 |
| rgareus | rncbc would know | 18:33 |
| rncbc | rgareus: temp-map, singular tense, yes | 18:33 |
| rncbc | tempo-map* | 18:33 |
| rgareus | right | 18:33 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: I'm thinking in a live context | 18:36 |
| rgareus | tap tempo? | 18:37 |
| ssj71 | song starts, you need to tweak the tempo a bit | 18:37 |
| ssj71 | drummer had too much coffee etc | 18:37 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: yeah | 18:37 |
| rgareus | ssj71: have you seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrr9lr_Pbkg (also applies to ardour) | 18:37 |
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| ssj71 | can this be done via midi? | 18:43 |
| * ssj71 only halfway through | 18:43 | |
| rgareus | ssj71: do you mean "change the tempo-map" with midi? | 18:44 |
| rgareus | or later apply the changes to midi? | 18:44 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: really I just want to change the tempo-sync | 18:45 |
| ssj71 | 'd plugins | 18:45 |
| ssj71 | live | 18:45 |
| ssj71 | say I've got a univibe and a sequencer running | 18:46 |
| rgareus | hmm, so you'll need live BPM detection | 18:46 |
| rgareus | that's not really a tempo-map though. | 18:47 |
| rgareus | tempo-map is a list of [ <time> : <speed> ] | 18:47 |
| rgareus | a bit oversimplified (you also have time-signatures...) but well | 18:48 |
| ssj71 | yeah I don't need that | 18:48 |
| ssj71 | not for this at least | 18:48 |
| rgareus | ssj71: I don't know of an existing project that does that yet. You could tell ardour to add tempo-markers every N seconds and set their value using OSC | 18:57 |
| rgareus | or just use jack_transport + jalv. | 18:57 |
| rgareus | ssj71: the common case is the other way 'round provide the drummer with a in-ear click | 19:00 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: I'm thinking the latter, maybe make a little app to take midi and then change the jack transport tempo. I think this would work with most hosts as long as they aren't being the master | 19:01 |
| ssj71 | or convinve falktx to add it to carla :) | 19:01 |
| ssj71 | *convince | 19:01 |
| rgareus | ssj71: do you only need tempo? or also bar/beat? | 19:02 |
| rgareus | to detect BPM, I'm not sure if aubio can be run realtime safe (vamp can't for sure) | 19:02 |
| ssj71 | I *think* just tempo I haven't yet specd a sequencer | 19:02 |
| ssj71 | I was under the impression aubio could. I haven't fully reviewed their source thoug | 19:03 |
| ssj71 | h | 19:03 |
| rgareus | but if speed-changes are slow, you can delegate it.. capture half a second. analyze. set tempo (if it changed significantly) | 19:03 |
| ssj71 | thats an interesting thought, an audio auto tempo analyzer | 19:03 |
| rgareus | http://vamp-plugins.org/plugin-doc/qm-vamp-plugins.html#qm-tempotracker | 19:04 |
| rgareus | (also has a Bar and Beat Tracker) | 19:04 |
| rgareus | ssj71: the main reason why they're not rt-safe is because the results is a list "<when> : <tempo>". depending on how many onsets there are the list can be large (and it's dynamically allocated) | 19:05 |
| ssj71 | I just want it to update JACK transport | 19:06 |
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| rgareus | so a jack client that just captures audio, writes it to a ringbuffer. when that's full pipes it to vamp.. and then sets the tempo (the jack client acts as timebase master) | 19:09 |
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| ssj71 | I'd probably use aubio | 19:10 |
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| ssj71 | then I think it could be done in the jack process | 19:10 |
| ssj71 | actually first iteration will probably just be midi controller | 19:13 |
| ssj71 | *controlled | 19:14 |
| ssj71 | the audio idea is interesting though. on the fly tempo mapping | 19:14 |
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| rgareus | ssj71: if I may ask, what's the use-case? which plugin do you want to sync? | 19:43 |
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| ventosus | ssj71: you want to set BPM via MIDI, in like automation? | 20:16 |
| ventosus | or derive BPM based on MIDI NoteOn input, e.g. MIDI BPM tracking? | 20:16 |
| * ventosus is interested in the latter | 20:17 | |
| HarryHaaren | ventosus: just between two events, or actually try to derive "meter" from a keyboard track? | 20:18 |
| ventosus | HarryHaaren: the latter, yes, in a live setup | 20:19 |
| HarryHaaren | ah ok. Good luck! | 20:20 |
| ventosus | so I can run some 'intelligent' accompaniment to my piano play | 20:20 |
| HarryHaaren | ... intelligent usually means "requires metadata" in my experience. Aka, tap your foot on a controller, and derive tempo/BPM from that | 20:21 |
| rgareus | he mentioned a "drummer" above | 20:22 |
| rgareus | so mo midi | 20:22 |
| HarryHaaren | ah sorry - /me just joined, no backlog. | 20:23 |
| HarryHaaren | ps, hey! | 20:23 |
| rgareus | and I could imagine to sync some echo. or delay to be the use-case | 20:23 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: hiho | 20:23 |
| * ventosus has MIDI | 20:23 | |
| ventosus | ssj71 has a drummer | 20:23 |
| rgareus | ventosus: one doesn't rule out the other. and detecting tempo from MIDI is a lot simpler | 20:24 |
| rgareus | musical time + time-sig probably too. if you know about note-numbers for kick and snare. | 20:25 |
| ventosus | I've been experimenting with Kalman filters to derive BPM from MIDI | 20:32 |
| ventosus | can be done in realtime | 20:33 |
| ventosus | but it's not good enough for my purpose, just yet | 20:33 |
| * ventosus will try to dissect vamp tempotracker and replace its audio beat tracker with direct MIDI input | 20:34 | |
| rgareus | ventosus: I'd guess just a 2nd order filter (DLL) would be enough. unless you really need to "predict" a future tempo | 20:36 |
| ventosus | rgareus: will try that, too, thanks | 20:41 |
| rgareus | hmm the linked paper (Davies & Plumbley) does describe a much more fancy approach | 20:41 |
| rgareus | but it needs context | 20:41 |
| ventosus | needs context usually means not doable in real time... | 20:43 |
| rgareus | or only with latency | 20:44 |
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| ssj71 | ventosus: I'm thinking a button on my footboard midi controller that allows me to tap a few times and change the delay time etc | 23:00 |
| rgareus | ssj71: if it's only a delay/echo there are a couple of plugins that directly have a tap-tempo control | 23:01 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: no its just only that, also the univibe and sequencer | 23:02 |
| ssj71 | and who knows what else | 23:02 |
| rgareus | ssj71: do you have a MOD? that would work already (you can tap tempo on the footswitch) | 23:02 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: yes, but mod doesn't have a good arp, yet | 23:05 |
| ssj71 | nor a very flexible drum sequencer | 23:06 |
| ssj71 | but thats the idea, I'm wondering if we have hw agnostic solutions | 23:06 |
| rgareus | ssj71: nobody's stopping you to write one :) | 23:06 |
| ssj71 | yeah I was afraid that was the answer | 23:07 |
| ssj71 | :) | 23:07 |
| ssj71 | but the simple take the last 4 messages set the tempo approach may work fine | 23:07 |
| ssj71 | and hopefully not take long | 23:07 |
| rgareus | ssj71: the MOD can generate MIDI-Clock (and/or MTC) that could be used to control other software/hardware | 23:08 |
| ssj71 | ooh thats a interesting solution, but still seems like I shouldn't need a $600 device to accomplish this in linux | 23:09 |
| rgareus | heh. I thought you had one already. | 23:10 |
| rgareus | and it's a robust device for on-stage use | 23:10 |
| ssj71 | I do, but there was some discussion in #opensourcemusicians along these line | 23:10 |
| ssj71 | lines. | 23:10 |
| ssj71 | set me thinking about it | 23:10 |
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