| rgareus | ColaEuphoria: only users who have old graphics cards | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| rgareus | from a LV2 and also portability POV it's sane. -- another plugin graphics stack that needs OGL 3.x shaders is https://github.com/wrl/rutabaga | 00:03 |
| ColaEuphoria | it's just that, surely fixed function works, but i feel like the buffer objects and array objects of 3+ can offload more work to the gpu and leave more cpu for audio processing | 00:56 |
| rgareus | ColaEuphoria: most lv2/pugl-based plugins just map a single texture (shared memory) and render onto it using cairo | 00:58 |
| rgareus | the same concept is also used for some commercial/proprietary openGL plugins | 00:58 |
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| ssj71 | hmm. I don't like this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DCp2u-toDDQiwBq4zPzYN3AfyKpJKFKssawcoUj-Udc/edit | 19:00 |
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| ssj71 | IMHO the breaks the doap#description meaning | 19:06 |
| ssj71 | in a ttl string do you just have mupltiple lines or put \n characters in? I've never done a line break in one... | 19:15 |
| ssj71 | https://forum.moddevices.com/t/the-infamous-stuck-round-2/1804/3?u=ssj71 | 19:29 |
| ssj71 | I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts on whether this is "proper" or not | 19:35 |
| m4l3z | i don't know if the 2-4 lines if really an issue ssj71 | 19:46 |
| m4l3z | is* | 19:46 |
| m4l3z | They seem to go beyond that in their examples | 19:48 |
| rgareus | ssj71: I think it's good to keep all documentation centralized (write once) and include it with the plugin | 19:52 |
| rgareus | ssj71: I tend to document plugin-ports and provide a small reference manual in the plugin's description | 19:52 |
| rgareus | but explicily line-breaks should be avoided (assuming a given line-length break layout for various hosts) | 19:57 |
| rgareus | In ttl, multi-line is easiest done by tripple quotes <URI> """ RAW MULTI-LINE TEXT HERE """ . | 20:00 |
| rgareus | see https://www.w3.org/TR/turtle/#turtle-literals | 20:01 |
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| ssj71 | m4l3z: who does, mod? or doap? | 20:19 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: I feel mod isn't utilizing that documentation but instead wants it duplicated in the description. Or am I reading it wrong? | 20:19 |
| rgareus | ssj71: doap:description does sound the right place to put doc. describe how to use the plugin and describe what it does | 20:22 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: so you think their guide is a good idea? | 20:22 |
| rgareus | ssj71: I think it's actually drobilla's idea, a bit extended | 20:22 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: ok, if you and drobilla are fine with it I don't care that much | 20:23 |
| rgareus | drobilla doesn't use line-breaks or specific formatting, nor do I | 20:23 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: how would you do the multiple paragraph form they recommend? | 20:24 |
| rgareus | ssj71: I probably wouldn't :) | 20:24 |
| m4l3z | ssj71: doap | 20:25 |
| m4l3z | ssj71: https://github.com/ewilderj/doap/blob/master/examples/redland-doap.rdf | 20:26 |
| rgareus | ssj71: a one line summary, like the convention used for git commits may would make sense IFF there wasn't a plugin-name already | 20:26 |
| m4l3z | https://github.com/ewilderj/doap/blob/master/examples/doap-doap.turtle | 20:26 |
| rgareus | ssj71: but I'm not a fan of explicit paragraphs in the description. | 20:26 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: that is exactly what mod is recommending/requiring to get plugins to the store... | 20:27 |
| rgareus | meh | 20:27 |
| rgareus | compare to drobilla's fomp, or e.g https://github.com/x42/fat1.lv2/blob/master/lv2ttl/fat1.ttl.in#L28 https://github.com/x42/fat1.lv2/blob/master/lv2ttl/fat1.ttl.in#L109 | 20:28 |
| ssj71 | I have a similar description and they are saying its inadequate | 20:29 |
| ssj71 | I propose we keep descriptions of that nature and longer more "marketing" type documentation in an rdfs:comment or something | 20:29 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: did you read through that doc I linked above? | 20:30 |
| rgareus | ssj71: no :) | 20:30 |
| rgareus | ssj71: I read the forum, not the g-doc | 20:30 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: I was just trying to provide some more context | 20:30 |
| ssj71 | I don't like what they are recommending and what may become the status-quo for lv2 plugins | 20:31 |
| m4l3z | what is it you don't like ? | 20:31 |
| ssj71 | but if the community thinks its fine I'm not going to fight it | 20:31 |
| ssj71 | m4l3z: doap:description """ Open Big Muff Open Big Muff is inspired by the classic Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi*. This massive pedal has defined the sound of rock guitar! Throughout the late 1960s and early 1970s the fuzz revolution took place spicing up rock and roll music. The Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi* was one of its greatest representatives. It's rich tone and creamy, violin-like sustain made its name among legends of all tim | 20:32 |
| ssj71 | """ | 20:32 |
| ssj71 | except the copy paste lost the linebreaks | 20:32 |
| rgareus | they also recommend to document controls in the description? that's weird, the MOD already shows doc for each control in the tooltip | 20:32 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: exactly, now you are seeing more of why I'm pushing back a little | 20:33 |
| rgareus | ssj71: OK, you're right their proposal is mostly BS. | 20:33 |
| ssj71 | thank you :) | 20:33 |
| rgareus | 1. wrong -- the title should not be in the description. there's already a plugin-name | 20:34 |
| ssj71 | I see their motivation, they want the plugins to sell themselves a little so that they can move hardware | 20:34 |
| rgareus | 2. wrong -- there's explicit ttl description for the author . | 20:34 |
| rgareus | 3. tagline. that's kinda ok. -- but why only if "deserved" ?! | 20:34 |
| rgareus | 4. odd. nobody cares about historical context when you want to *use* a plugin | 20:35 |
| m4l3z | i agree (4) | 20:35 |
| rgareus | 5 "What it does" hmm yeah.. I guess that's good idea. | 20:35 |
| ssj71 | they want us to write marketing material | 20:37 |
| rgareus | I guess (4) is a gray area. if you emulate - say - a 1970 vintage effect it can be mentioned. as part of (5) | 20:37 |
| rgareus | their examples are not great IMHO | 20:38 |
| * rgareus closes the g-doc | 20:38 | |
| ssj71 | rgareus: if you care to comment on the forum I think we can nip it in the bud | 20:39 |
| rgareus | "Simple volume gain without "zipping" noise while messing with the gain parameter" -- worst description, ever | 20:40 |
| rgareus | apparently they didn't like https://github.com/x42/tinyamp.lv2/blob/master/lv2ttl/tinygain.ttl.in#L26-L32 (which interestinly does have a title + newline | 20:41 |
| rgareus | mea culpla | 20:41 |
| m4l3z | what host actually shows those info ? | 20:42 |
| rgareus | ssj71: since falktx left MOD, I kinda lost interest | 20:42 |
| rgareus | m4l3z: I know that Ardour does, jalv shows per-port doc in the tooltips | 20:42 |
| rgareus | the MOD-host shows it. I think Carla does, too | 20:43 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: I just worry that that document is going to become percieved as lv2 cannon by developers that take interest in MOD | 20:43 |
| m4l3z | can't see where | 20:46 |
| rgareus | ssj71: I'm working on a longer reply | 20:52 |
| ssj71 | m4l3z: those are all still only a few sentences mod is proposing several short paragraphs and even bullet style feature lists | 21:10 |
| m4l3z | true | 21:18 |
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| rgareus | ssj71: sent | 21:24 |
| * ssj71 goes to check it out | 21:25 | |
| ssj71 | rgareus: for the 3. "if deserved" non-sense, couldn't the doap:shortdesc be used for that? | 21:29 |
| ssj71 | I think they could compose most of that (or a sensible version at least) by just combining existing ttl fields | 21:30 |
| ssj71 | if there are port doc descriptions put a list of them at the bottom | 21:31 |
| ssj71 | etc | 21:31 |
| rgareus | ssj71: yes and yes :) | 21:57 |
| rgareus | ssj71: there's a half-baked project (https://github.com/x42/lv2toweb) that can generate a html from lv2 ttl | 21:58 |
| rgareus | example: http://x42.github.io/midifilter.lv2/http___gareus_org_oss_lv2_midifilter_mididelay.html | 21:59 |
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| rgareus | including the port-range and scale-points is perhaps overkill in the html doc | 22:00 |
| ssj71 | yeah that doesn't market well | 22:00 |
| rgareus | also it does't have a proper CSS style.. | 22:00 |
| ssj71 | its an unfortunate thing that marketing works. I much prefer if it didn't and then things would just be written clearly | 22:00 |
| rgareus | anyway, the key point is that (1) description/doc should be "host-neutral" running text in the .ttl. (2) other information as sematic meta-data. | 22:04 |
| rgareus | too bad it's too late for a Jimi Hendrix Signature LV2 Plugins :) | 22:07 |
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