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| jmagnusj | Is there anything like a file selector parameter? I want to have a scala file selector to pick microtuning | 04:08 |
|---|---|---|
| jmagnusj | ... without having to code up a whole gui for all the other parameters | 04:09 |
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| drobilla` | jmagnusj: see eg-sampler in jalv.gtk, ardour, etc | 07:03 |
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| drobilla | rgareus: I am coming around to your position of just nuking all the Gtk/Qt garbage from orbit :) | 19:07 |
| rgareus | drobilla: I'm glad to hear it | 19:08 |
| rgareus | drobilla: what was the trigger to make you reconsider? | 19:08 |
| drobilla | I won't actually because then people would only be *more* annoying ;) | 19:08 |
| drobilla | But cf. the list | 19:09 |
| rgareus | -> statically link plugins and plugin UI. If your toolkit does not allow that, don't use the toolkit . The End. | 19:11 |
| rgareus | well, I guess it's more complex. symbols need to be hidden as well. | 19:12 |
| drobilla | My memory of the details around all that are pretty hazy these days | 19:12 |
| drobilla | What are the real platforms where statically linking a dynamically loadable library/module is not okay? | 19:13 |
| rgareus | we don't care if you use QT5.. if it's all *internal* and shows up as X11UI or CocoaUI .. | 19:13 |
| rgareus | drobilla: if the lib is already loaded. or symbold in memory (from another plugin). the symbol already present will be used | 19:14 |
| rgareus | drobilla: if the lib is already loaded. or symbol *is* in memory (from another plugin). the symbol already present will be used | 19:14 |
| drobilla | Yes. The only real downside is that when the host and UI toolkit line up, the noop proper embedding is nice and works better | 19:14 |
| drobilla | I mean, gcc used to warn about doing that pretty loudly. Trying to mix static and dynamic whatsoever | 19:15 |
| drobilla | But stopped at some point | 19:15 |
| rgareus | "when the host and UI toolkit line up" -> same ABI (incl possible g++ ABI in dependent libs) | 19:15 |
| drobilla | or.. PIC/non-PIC? | 19:15 |
| rgareus | it did work for half a decade for gtk2 on Linux, because gtk2 didn't change at all, nor sigc++ nor did the g++ ABI change | 19:16 |
| rgareus | enter g++5 and C++11, sigc++ changed significanly broke gtkmm and the rest is hell^Whistory | 19:17 |
| drobilla | Well, yes, but OTOH "fuck you, distributions, we only support static binaries and duplicated libraries that directly contradicts your policies which exist for good reason" is a little questionable around these parts :) | 19:17 |
| rgareus | drobilla: distros are also broken, because they sometimes just change the lib, and don't recompile the rest. Then recompile e.g. 1 plugin (new version) -> broken | 19:17 |
| drobilla | Obviously if you actually want to make portable binary distributions then, yeah, you can't do any of this | 19:17 |
| drobilla | Everything is broken, film at eleven. | 19:18 |
| rgareus | the concept of audio-plugins is flawed - and even more so when combining it with shared libs | 19:19 |
| drobilla | Allowing UIs to provide a "whatever" is good and LV2ey | 19:19 |
| drobilla | Encouraging any expectation of Qt/Gtk/whatever UIs working in other hosts was (probably) the mistake | 19:19 |
| drobilla | Meh. A variant on NIHism, which has its merits but I find boring and irrelevant here in the real world where everyone can't implement monoliths and it would suck if they could anyway. | 19:20 |
| drobilla | The general concept of plugins is fantastic. | 19:20 |
| rgareus | the idea is great. | 19:21 |
| rgareus | the reality.. load some random binary blob into the same memory space, run it as realtime. is awful | 19:21 |
| drobilla | Some questionable-in-open-source land ideas like "distribute LLVM IR" are nice though | 19:22 |
| drobilla | Well, kind of. Because they're allowed to be shitty. | 19:22 |
| drobilla | If there's ever an ideal universe LV3 or whatever, it should be absolutely brutal about this. | 19:22 |
| drobilla | Fails validation (including brutal fuzzing, and so on)? Doesn't even show up in host at all. etc | 19:23 |
| drobilla | The real social problem here is that host authors take flak for shit plugins, and you get weird things like massive overhead of IPC to avoid the problems of crap plugins | 19:24 |
| drobilla | The spec support stuff should redirect as much of that blame as possible on the author of the shitty plugin. Good tooling could go pretty far there, I think. | 19:25 |
| drobilla | (Propellerhead's rack extensions do the bitcode thing, BTW) | 19:29 |
| drobilla | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway | 19:43 |
| * drobilla opens stupiddamneddissertation.tex | 19:43 | |
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