Monday, 2017-02-27

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* drobilla` finally gets around to implementing port groups in ingen08:14
drobilla`It'd be really nice if the whole ecosystem actually got along so things like playing a 5.1 video in your media player exposed the right metadata so it showed up in Patchage sensibly, and creating a 5.1 LV2 group in Ingen did likewise and auto-connect worked and so on...08:15
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falktxrgareus: regarding plugin uis. we have not just juce, but dpf and your little toolkit too.08:26
falktxntk also has x11 embedding, although not as nice as the others (menus can block event loop)08:27
falktxsome plugins roll their own little toolkit, like drumgizmo and oxefmsynth (vst only for now)08:27
falktxlike https://github.com/oxesoft/oxefmsynth/blob/master/src/toolkits/xlibtoolkit.cpp08:28
falktxwrl also has rutabaga(?), which seems to work nicely08:28
* ventosus opted for https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear whose GL backend harmonizes nicely with pugl across platforms08:51
falktxseems very similar to nanovg09:02
ventosusthere are similarities, yes, but nuklear takes care of all the tricky layouting, widgetery, user input and text editing, is not a simple canvas library09:39
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rgareusfalktx: how did you find http://dev.drobilla.net/ticket/1157 in just under 30 mins? is there a RSS/Atom feed for that site?14:14
falktxI happened to be visiting drobilla's site on the right time :)14:15
falktxI'm a person with good timing, I think14:15
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drobillaReading the email notifications on that one during my day of working in C++17 and giving zero fucks about old compilers, let alone 10 point bloody 5, was entertaining in its way :)17:32
drobilla(this is such an annoying issue, gcc should just by default support the most recent thing it supports and the option should be there to *restrict* this, not --enable-not-the-language-from-20-fucking-years-ago)17:33
rgareusdrobilla: and now continue to argue against breaking backwards compatibility :)17:35
drobillargareus: Meh, we all have our reasonable lines.  Mine is well past 10.517:35
drobillaI mean, I'll fix it, but caring about *building* on such a dusty old OSX is a waste of time IMO17:36
rgareusbump suil's major version and I'm fine with it17:36
drobillaUh, no.  The major version number means something important, and it's not that.17:37
rgareusI'm also not sure what MSVC has to say on the subject (john's probably not using qt5 either and probably also not waf)17:37
drobillaNo idea, but it's also required of gtkmm these daysNo17:38
rgareusgtk2 and gtk2mm are fine17:38
rgareuswith C89 and C++9817:38
rgareuswell whatever17:39
drobillagtkmm2 wasn't last I checked17:39
rgareusdue to sigc++17:39
drobillaI had to add that flag elsewhere to make a bunch of gtkmm problems go away17:39
rgareusit's not a direct gtkmm2 issue, but indirect due to sigc++ (and maybe glibmm)17:40
rgareusanyway17:40
rgareusdrobilla: is there a reason not to apply the patch from http://dev.drobilla.net/ticket/1157 ?17:40
drobillargareus: Not that I can see, though an non-mandatory check for the flag would be better (for checks that include headers and such)17:42
drobillaI figured it would be (hence the conditional), but nope, so that check makes no sense as-is anyway.  mandatory=False seems to work though17:43
rgareusdrobilla: Even if the compiler supports it, enabling it may not be the right thing17:44
drobillaNeeds an autowaf.set_cxx0x_mode() or whatever but updating autowaf is annoying :)17:44
drobillargareus: Doubtful17:44
rgareusthink of C++11 builds17:44
rgareusgcc5/6 default to std=cxx1117:44
rgareusforcing it back to  c++0x  may or may not break things17:45
* drobilla sighs17:45
drobillaFiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine I'll update autowaf with a cascading thing17:45
drobillaI'll only have to do it later otherwise anyway17:45
rgareusI've helped myself: http://ardour.org/files/deps/suil-0.8.5-gv0.8.4-5-g55e103e.tar.bz217:46
rgareusincludes the patch17:46
drobillaI suppose I could be lazy and just apply that17:47
drobillaDoing checks and stuff with different flags than the ones actually used just smells like trouble though17:48
* drobilla should probably do the DFSG thing and just include waf stuff as a submodule17:48
drobillargareus: This seems like the most correct thing to me (?) http://pastebin.com/WT65Mqy717:54
drobillaer, less the unused mandatory thing17:54
rgareusdrobilla: inside the QT5 case17:56
drobillaSet C++11 if possible, C++0x for old things that don't understand that, otherwise just pray17:56
drobillargareus: Why?17:56
drobillargareus: Building with different flags than the checks occur for just smells like recipe for future pain to me.  I just want to plug this in as my boilerplate for this in everything that uses these flags17:56
rgareusalso just setting compiler flags without the possibility of a user overriding them strikes me as a bad idea17:57
drobillaYeah, well, maybe, but a bad idea that basically every project ever does17:57
rgareuswhat if CXXFLAGS already includes  -std=c++17 ?17:58
drobilla(and your patch has all the same problems if qt5 is found, which is incredibly likely, anyway)17:58
rgareus-std=zc++11  ? is that 'z' a typo?17:58
drobillaI was testing17:58
* rgareus ->dinner17:58
drobillaOkay, well, we can bikeshed here about parsing CXXFLAGS and trying to interpret them and decide if "equivalent" ones are there and what to replace, and all kinds of other completely unrealistic shit17:58
drobillaooooooooooooor not.  I vote not. ;)17:59
drobilla(there is no reasonable case I can think of to need to do this for flags like -std anyway)17:59
drobillaYay, waf removed the "unused" variable Options.platform18:18
ssj71that nuklear lib looks very interesting18:26
drobillaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand breaks CFLAGS nuking for debug in recursive projects18:27
* drobilla sighs18:27
drobillaWhy can't there be a build tool that's as shiny and doesn't break every 5 minutes because the developer gives zero fucks about breakage of any and all varieties? :/18:27
drobillassj71: Yeah, that one seems pretty cool at first glance.  Haven't tinkered with it though18:28
ssj71I'm looking through the examples, not quite sure I fully understand how you bind it to a backend18:29
ssj71or tell it what to draw and whatnot18:29
ssj71but that mixed with pugl might give a pretty awesome toolkit18:31
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drobillaimperatively, whenever.  in the canvas example in the main loop18:31
drobillaThanks to all that wonderful hidden GL context stuff that GL people like to misguidedly emulate in their libraries :)18:32
drobillaglwuoyiawervylib_set_current_static_global_state_thingie_because_I_slept_through_first_year_systems_programming()18:33
rgareusdrobilla: i vote to simply not set any -std=XXX  in suil's wscript  and let the user deal with it18:35
drobillalol18:36
rgareusdrobilla: suil does not need any C++ flags itself18:37
drobillaYou can vote for me getting a but report about it not compiling every week all you like ;)18:37
drobillaOut here in reality, yeah, no thanks18:37
rgareusqt5 may or may ot need it.. and then qt's pkgconfig or qmake whatever should provide it18:37
drobillaThat's nice, but it doesn't.18:37
drobillaDo you have any legitimate reason to vote for this gigantic pain in the ass of making it not compiling out of the box on most systems?18:38
rgareushow do other qt5 apps compile if qt5 needs C++11 ?18:38
drobillaBy setting -std, I imagine18:39
drobillaAnyway, whatever.  Configure passing and build failing is a bug, period.  That is the whole point of configure.18:40
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ssj71ventosus: have you considered contributing your nk_pulg implementation upstream? Seems a cross platform backend might be interesting enough for them to put it in the examples18:47
drobillaHoly shit, one 14000 line header file18:49
ssj71yup18:51
ventosusssj71: possible, nk_pugl wrapper is still in testing phase though, and upstream only accepts C89, which restrains me a bit18:52
ssj71I see18:53
ssj71ventosus: nice to see that part has already been worked on though18:53
* ssj71 starting to second guess his rolling-his-own approach he's been working on18:54
ventosusssj71: here a simple dummy example plugin https://gitlab.com/OpenMusicKontrollers/nuk.lv218:54
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* drobilla idly wonders how batshit a single header pugl would be20:57
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rgareusvery batshit21:03
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rgareusexcept also make sure everything is static and hidden (OSX flat namespace)21:04
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ssj71I consider a little file organization a virtue personally21:05
ssj71great if you can keep it simple enough to fit in a readable header, but 17k lines doesn't do that IMHO21:06
ssj71pugl is rather navigable21:06
rgareusin pugl maybe 4 header files, API,  Linux, Win, OSX21:07
rgareusheader-only would be awesome though21:07
drobillaYeah, the different platforms make it rather questionable21:07
ssj71I could deal with that, just not one huge one21:07
rgareusIDK if osx header-only is feasible though21:08
drobillaYeah, objc is..... special21:08
rgareusyou can use quartz directly. that works header only21:09
drobilla(the API is in a single header now, though there's a few trivial utility ones)21:09
rgareusbut is a bit of a PITA21:09
drobillaWould possibly/probably be much better for Cairo anyway, but I dunno21:10
drobillaMeh, anyway, bikeshed21:11
* ssj71 facepalms21:13
* ssj71 begins refactoring the library he just finished adding that uses global vars21:13
drobillaHm... I wonder if there's a compiler warning flag for that21:14
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Felix__Hello22:17
Felix__Anyone here? :)22:17
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* rgareus counts 29 heads22:54
trebmuhHello23:04
trebmuhAny question maybe? :)23:04
* trebmuh wonders how many question rgareus can count :)23:04
rgareus023:06
* rgareus thinks he already answered the question. Next.23:06
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