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| rgareus | drobilla: What makes the avldrums GUI cool is that it's entirely useless :) | 09:41 |
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| drobilla | rgareus: If I've learned anything about plugin GUIs, it's that the more useless and shiny, the better :) | 14:02 |
| rgareus | indeed | 14:03 |
| rgareus | it basically went like this: me: "I'd be nice if we could just bundle the AVLDrumkits and streamline the workflow" Glen: "yeah, cool." Ben: "But we need a GUI to sell it" | 14:05 |
| rgareus | (sell, here: convince users, not ask for money) | 14:05 |
| rgareus | me: "They don't need a GUI" Ben: "who cares" | 14:06 |
| * rgareus prototypes... | 14:07 | |
| rgareus | Glen: I love that GUI. let me take better pictures | 14:07 |
| drobilla | heh | 14:10 |
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| Yruama_Lairba | hello | 14:47 |
| HarryHaaren | hey Yruama_Lairba | 14:48 |
| Yruama_Lairba | i wake up because it's talking about GUI | 14:50 |
| HarryHaaren | Yruama_Lairba: I only joined recently - was there a discussion about UIs? | 14:57 |
| Yruama_Lairba | yes, there was a discussion about good looking GUI to "sell" plugins" | 15:03 |
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| HarryHaaren | Yruama_Lairba: ah ok, pity i missed it, I think its an intersting buisness-case to sell "fancy UIs" while open-sourcing the DSP parts | 15:10 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: the context was avldrums.lv2 - a useless UI. | 15:11 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: and 14:02 < drobilla> rgareus: If I've learned anything about plugin GUIs, it's that the more useless and shiny, the better :) | 15:11 |
| rgareus | which is spot-on. | 15:11 |
| Yruama_Lairba | UI = Useless Interface ? ;) | 15:12 |
| rgareus | yes | 15:12 |
| HarryHaaren | hehe yeah spose - that said, I do like my shiny interfaces :) | 15:12 |
| * HarryHaaren recently bought a copy of Bitwig - slick UI :D | 15:12 | |
| rgareus | it's all fashion. | 15:12 |
| HarryHaaren | rgareus: is there a UI for avldrums? | 15:12 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: https://vimeo.com/191024580 | 15:13 |
| HarryHaaren | hehe awesome :D | 15:14 |
| rgareus | the main use-case was "inform host about .midnam and port-groups" but that only improves UX and does not "sell" :) | 15:14 |
| Yruama_Lairba | in fact, i think theres is a synestesia effect that improve the sound quality perception when there is a good looking UI :D | 15:14 |
| rgareus | Yruama_Lairba: yeah, there's definitly some truth to that. | 15:14 |
| rgareus | the problem is that "looking good" is impossible to define. | 15:16 |
| rgareus | there are some basic design rules and if you screw those up, almost everyone will agree that it looks ugly. but the other way round.. just like fashion | 15:17 |
| rgareus | https://community.ardour.org/node/14057 | 15:18 |
| Yruama_Lairba | i think esthetic consideration should come at last | 15:20 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: personally I don't like bitwig's design. But in your case, I think that liking to Orange was indocrinated early on :) | 15:20 |
| HarryHaaren | heh, although I'm moving to a blue / white design atm :) | 15:22 |
| HarryHaaren | orange is a "one trick pony" - its in your face at the start, and then gets boring | 15:22 |
| rgareus | wait, should that not be green and white (and orange) :-P | 15:24 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: what new UIs are you working on? | 15:26 |
| HarryHaaren | rgareus: very litte at the moment - mostly managing some Luppp pull requests, and prototyping a new way of doing Controller support | 15:26 |
| HarryHaaren | the controller stuff is a continuation of the LibController I was talking about in Berlin, but with a new approach | 15:27 |
| drobilla | Down with blue! | 15:27 |
| HarryHaaren | .. why? :D | 15:27 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: aah yeah.. did we continue that discussion (after the meeting with wrl) to expose the low-level part of that API? | 15:28 |
| HarryHaaren | I've been working on it yes, but not publicly yet - because i'm not 100% that its the right solution (yet) | 15:29 |
| HarryHaaren | drobilla: I took some inspiration from PUGL re controller API design btw - thanks for the decent reference library for event abstraction :) | 15:29 |
| HarryHaaren | rgareus: I'm currently prototyping this implementation with Luppp - allowing runtime compilation of "script" files for controllers to bind Luppp | 15:30 |
| HarryHaaren | the "script" files are actually plain C - and coded against a Luppp event API which is plain C | 15:30 |
| HarryHaaren | then TCC compiles and links the script at runtime (allowing hot-upgrading of script files) | 15:31 |
| HarryHaaren | it seems quite a nice workflow | 15:31 |
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| HarryHaaren | for adding controller support - later it can be compiled into the actual binary itself. I like that idea that a whole project is a single language (C / C++ treated as one language in this case..) | 15:31 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: the main case was to not impose a "smart" semantic top-level API. but only expose low-level. | 15:32 |
| rgareus | ie "dumb control surface" | 15:32 |
| HarryHaaren | yep - that's the plan | 15:33 |
| drobilla | HarryHaaren: Pugl events are just a blatant rip-off of Gtk/X11/etc, really | 15:33 |
| drobilla | What's this controller API business? | 15:33 |
| HarryHaaren | think PUGL gives mouse events (scroll, click, this that) while this API provides button press, release, and encoder turns | 15:33 |
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| HarryHaaren | drobilla: i'm working on an "abstraction library" for modern USB-HID/MIDI controllers, to make it easier to tightly-integrate programs with them | 15:34 |
| HarryHaaren | in short, I got access to a few USB HID devices (which require 1) userspace drivers in linux, or 2) an app to explicitly support it) | 15:35 |
| HarryHaaren | that screams "make me a library" - and that led to me attempting to create a library for it :) | 15:35 |
| drobilla | I see. I half baked one of those once upon a time but only implemented Novation stuff | 15:35 |
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| HarryHaaren | oh cool - i didn't know the Novation things were USB HID compliant. I have some of the NI gear | 15:36 |
| HarryHaaren | but long term, it would be great to have a bunch of HW supported, and make it easy for devs to script new functionality based on the controller in question | 15:36 |
| drobilla | Not sure if they're technically HID, more of a raw quasi MIDI over USB thing | 15:37 |
| HarryHaaren | ah blech, yeah. that's exactly the garbage I'd like to abstract :) | 15:38 |
| drobilla | In any case, a decent library for that would be nice. Then we can serialize to atoms then... :D | 15:38 |
| HarryHaaren | The NI gear I got my hands on are pretty neatly designed USB HID class compliant devices - I'm impressed by thier engineering (both hw + sw interface in this case) | 15:38 |
| HarryHaaren | re serializing atoms: awesome yep - hadn't even thought of that yet | 15:39 |
| drobilla | + a MIDI=>thoseevents thing so app code doesn't have to explicitly deal with that | 15:39 |
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| drobilla | Paul's all about the Push lately which is apparently also really well done | 15:39 |
| HarryHaaren | yep. I'm actually making a MIDI -> Luppp event thing, but that could equally easy be atom events | 15:39 |
| HarryHaaren | they're nice pieces of kit too, and its really rewarding to hardware-bind software IMO - lets leave the laptops to the side for live performances :) | 15:40 |
| drobilla | ++ | 15:41 |
| drobilla | (Though the lack of a 16x8 grid controller is starting to get on my step sequencing nerves...) | 15:41 |
| HarryHaaren | yep - there are a few dudes making them (small scale) but they cost stupid amounts of money | 15:44 |
| HarryHaaren | I'll be working on a proper version of the controller library in a few weeks time (holidays :) and with the hope of submitting for LAC | 15:45 |
| drobilla | I have a Launchpad Pro, though it has a kernel MIDI driver now | 15:45 |
| HarryHaaren | if you guys are interested in doing a review of the code at a given stage, I can tarball up a demo of sorts, and see what you guys think? | 15:45 |
| * drobilla shrugs | 15:46 | |
| drobilla | sure | 15:46 |
| HarryHaaren | cool, thanks. | 15:46 |
| * HarryHaaren back to hacking a prototype for Luppp | 15:46 | |
| drobilla | Speaking of which, what's avtk2 status these days? | 15:47 |
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| rgareus | lv2 plugins written in rust?! My My, Hey Hey, LV2 is here to stay | 15:52 |
| drobilla | \o/ | 15:53 |
| * drobilla seriously needs to figure out something to write in Rust | 15:53 | |
| rgareus | get wrl on the case | 15:53 |
| drobilla | Hm. Pugl bindings might be interesting | 15:54 |
| drobilla | There's already Cairo and OpenGL ones... | 15:54 |
| HarryHaaren | Avtk2? Oh its a rust re-write ;) | 15:55 |
| HarryHaaren | nah seriously, I'm using it in ArtyFX and Fabla2, but it needs a bit of love before its actually good | 15:56 |
| drobilla | heh | 15:56 |
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