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| frinknet | could lilv be used for audio routing inside an application? | 13:24 |
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| rgareus | frinknet: no, not really. | 14:09 |
| rgareus | lilv abstracts LV2 plugin handling. | 14:10 |
| rgareus | frinknet: jackaudio.org can - not only inside an application. | 14:11 |
| frinknet | I'm trying to avoid being dependent on Jack | 14:13 |
| frinknet | I saw some stuff that looked like routing in one of the utils. On closer inspection I see I stll need to do some audio routing myself. | 14:14 |
| rgareus | frinknet: the LAD repo has various related tools. incl a jack-patchbay (GUI frontend) and a modular synth. | 14:16 |
| rgareus | the latter can do routing, but is complete overkill if you just need to do that | 14:16 |
| rgareus | "Patchage" is the jack-connection manager. "ingen" the modular. | 14:17 |
| frinknet | I'll probably just do some shm buffers myself | 14:17 |
| rgareus | frinknet: yeah, if it's all inside a single application, it's not that hard. | 14:18 |
| rgareus | calculating the graph depending on connections is going to be the most tricky part | 14:18 |
| frinknet | Is there an ALSA based lv2 host? I'm looking for the most simple example of lilv in action. | 14:20 |
| frinknet | Looked at the utils but there's really no example of running lv2 on a file or buffer... | 14:21 |
| ventosus | frinknet: http://lv2plug.in/pages/projects.html lists simple file based hosts | 14:24 |
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| rgareus | frinknet: jalv (jack LV2 host) is a lot simpler. writing plain ALSA is a lot more complex. | 14:44 |
| frinknet | actually lv2file is smaller than jalv | 14:44 |
| rgareus | right. | 14:45 |
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| ssj71 | So if GTK is not acceptably portable for cross platform plugins what toolkits are? It seems like AVTK/PUGL, and DPF are the only options. | 16:48 |
| ssj71 | are there others? | 16:49 |
| ssj71 | I guess anything that renders through openGL | 16:55 |
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| edogawa | robtk, juce, Qt4/5? | 17:36 |
| ssj71 | AVTK depends on X11? so its not cross platform either | 17:36 |
| ssj71 | juce yes, Qt is no IIUC | 17:36 |
| ssj71 | qt is fine for standalones, but not for plugins | 17:37 |
| ssj71 | robtk is news to me | 17:37 |
| edogawa | so why does jalv provide .qt4 and .qt5 variants? | 17:37 |
| ssj71 | ah | 17:37 |
| ssj71 | edogawa: because jalv is not a plugin, its a standalone app | 17:37 |
| edogawa | robtk is rgareus' toolkit | 17:37 |
| edogawa | in x42-plugins | 17:38 |
| edogawa | hm, i know that but i thought it's for running qt gui plugins, but what do i know... | 17:39 |
| rgareus | edogawa: jalv supports it mostly for testing. | 17:39 |
| edogawa | rgareus: k | 17:39 |
| rgareus | qtractor is qt5 as host. | 17:39 |
| rgareus | but jalv is a host - not a plugin anyway | 17:39 |
| edogawa | and carla as plugin, isn't that pyqt4? | 17:40 |
| rgareus | ssj71: in short, there's no toolkit.. in the commercial world pretty much every manufactorer rolls his/her own. | 17:40 |
| rgareus | the vast majority of toolkits (e.g gtk, qt...) are tailored for spreadsheet-like applications. | 17:41 |
| rgareus | ssj71: I though Harry's new AVTK (the pugl-based one -- not the ftgl/ntk) will be x-platform (thanks to pugl) | 17:42 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: right now it depends on X11 | 17:43 |
| rgareus | yeah ntk is x11 only. | 17:43 |
| ssj71 | rgareus: even his pugl implementation right now: https://github.com/harryhaaren/openAV-AVTK/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L51 | 17:44 |
| rgareus | odd | 17:45 |
| rgareus | pugl abstracts that completely | 17:45 |
| ssj71 | maybe WIP | 17:45 |
| rgareus | ssj71: looking at your plugin GUIs I wonder what widgets you use anyway.. it's all custom drawn isn't it? | 17:46 |
| rgareus | ssj71: It'll probabl be easy for you to use pugl directly. just a bit of code to handle events for the knobs. | 17:48 |
| rgareus | despite the GL in the name, recent pugl can youve you a cairo object. | 17:49 |
| ssj71 | I should look into that | 17:58 |
| ssj71 | that makes a lot of sense. Thought I'll need a text box widget soon. I imagine its doable though | 17:59 |
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| ssj71 | hmm, then I have to manage widget placement and layout etc. All the widgety stuff so not quite as slick as I thought. | 18:09 |
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| ssj71 | oi, and tooltips... there's a lot. hmm. | 18:11 |
| falktx|work | edogawa: carla ui runs in a separate process, so it can use anything | 18:15 |
| ssj71 | falktx|work: would qt unload the whole library on OSX like gtk does when you close the plugin UI? | 18:16 |
| falktx|work | no idea tbh | 18:16 |
| falktx|work | my use of qt in carla is not a normal one | 18:17 |
| ssj71 | ya | 18:17 |
| falktx|work | the carla's backend has no toolkit at all | 18:17 |
| falktx|work | that allows it to work as a plugin safely | 18:17 |
| ssj71 | of course. its a backend :) | 18:17 |
| falktx|work | the trick is separating UI and DSP | 18:17 |
| falktx|work | I wish all plugins did that.. | 18:17 |
| ssj71 | I guess the experiment is to open carla or another qt plugin in carla on OSX and then close the UI and see if it does anything to carla | 18:18 |
| ssj71 | falktx|work: are you statically linked to qt? | 18:18 |
| falktx|work | there are no qt plugins on osx that I know of | 18:18 |
| ssj71 | wait, I think thats impossible on OSX | 18:18 |
| falktx|work | carla plugin doesn't use qt as far as the host is concerned | 18:19 |
| falktx|work | qt never reaches the host, it's a separate process UI | 18:19 |
| ssj71 | falktx|work: but its an issue of whether its using the same system library IIUC | 18:19 |
| falktx|work | ah that | 18:19 |
| falktx|work | the qt library is built as static yes | 18:19 |
| falktx|work | on osx | 18:19 |
| falktx|work | for windows I don't do carla as plugin, yet | 18:20 |
| ssj71 | hmm. I don't know a lot about this. rgareus seems to know it well | 18:20 |
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| ssj71 | I think harry made avtk depend on x11 just so it would build. Its a build system hack not a code bug | 18:28 |
| * ssj71 is starting to be tempted to make a C library toolkit, but knows it would be a lot of duplication with AVTK | 18:33 | |
| rgareus | falktx|work: static QT? how large is that? | 18:33 |
| falktx|work | rgareus: the full bundle was around 90Mb, including the 32bit support | 18:40 |
| falktx|work | ssj71: or dpf :P | 18:40 |
| falktx|work | ssj71: I'll be happy to make dpf work with cairo if that's what devs want | 18:40 |
| ssj71 | falktx|work: ya. I've just grown to like full on LV2. | 18:40 |
| ssj71 | falktx|work: cairo is what I want. Dunno about others | 18:41 |
| rgareus | falktx|work: and since it's statically linked it'll be loaded into RAM - for every plugin? | 18:45 |
| falktx|work | rgareus: hm? no | 18:46 |
| falktx|work | the bundle has that size because of the several binaries | 18:46 |
| falktx|work | there's native bridge and 32bit bridge, plus the lv2-cocoa ui bridge | 18:47 |
| falktx|work | the UIs are linked to the PyQt modules, which are shared libs | 18:47 |
| ssj71 | falktx|work: I know I've asked but is DPF scalable? | 18:49 |
| falktx|work | yes just like any other framework | 18:49 |
| ssj71 | falktx|work: sorry, I mean are DPF ui's scalable? | 18:49 |
| falktx|work | lol | 18:49 |
| falktx|work | they are resizable | 18:49 |
| falktx|work | err, kinda | 18:50 |
| * ssj71 on the edge of his seat to learn more :) | 18:50 | |
| ssj71 | DPF just seems to use some of the deeper C++ techniques that I don't follow easily. | 18:53 |
| falktx|work | really? I don't think there's anything complex there | 18:54 |
| ssj71 | I never use templates | 18:54 |
| falktx|work | I don't think dpf uses those | 18:54 |
| falktx|work | only maybe in the utils, they are optional | 18:54 |
| ssj71 | well, maybe its just zam's implementation | 18:55 |
| falktx|work | which file? | 18:56 |
| ssj71 | falktx|work: https://github.com/zamaudio/zam-plugins/blob/master/plugins/ZamTube/inv.h | 18:56 |
| falktx|work | yes, zam specific stuff | 18:56 |
| falktx|work | but that's just a function using a template class | 18:57 |
| ssj71 | I'm just reading https://distrho.github.io/DPF/ maybe that will answer some things | 18:57 |
| falktx|work | that way the "Port" thing can be anything | 18:57 |
| falktx|work | that should yes, although that's a bit old now | 18:57 |
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