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falktx | rgareus: small nickpicking... | 10:30 |
---|---|---|
falktx | setbfree output ports are: | 10:30 |
falktx | Left output | 10:30 |
falktx | Right Output | 10:30 |
falktx | one of those names has a 'O' in caps, the other does not :) | 10:31 |
rgareus | falktx: thanks. | 10:33 |
rgareus | falktx: fixed | 10:33 |
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falktx | ingen is using 5% dsp load with no plugins loaded :( | 11:29 |
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rgareus | falktx: doing what? | 12:50 |
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falktx | good question | 13:13 |
drobilla | falktx: odd. What's in the root graph? | 14:24 |
falktx | nothing, just some ports that connect to hw | 14:33 |
drobilla | define "some" | 14:33 |
falktx | 2 audio ins + outs, 1 midi in + out | 14:34 |
falktx | connected to their matching outside jack ports | 14:34 |
falktx | no connections or plugins loaded in ingen | 14:34 |
drobilla | falktx: OK | 14:38 |
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falktx | lol | 14:38 |
rgareus | ingen must have overloaded his machine :) | 14:39 |
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falktx | lilv doesn't seem to handle bundle removal very nicely | 16:16 |
falktx | I do unload_bundle, but get_all_plugins still has references to plugins on that bundle | 16:16 |
drobilla | Correct. It does not go through the bundle contents and remove everything defined in it | 16:18 |
falktx | but I can't do load_all because it will cause duplicates | 16:18 |
falktx | the only solution seems to be to recreate the world instance | 16:18 |
drobilla | That much shouldn't happen at least | 16:18 |
falktx | (sorry for paste, quicker...) | 16:19 |
falktx | lilv_world_add_plugin(): error: Duplicate plugin <http://moddevices.com/plugins/tap/dynamics> | 16:19 |
falktx | lilv_world_add_plugin(): error: ... found in file:///home/falktx/.lv2//tap-dynamics.lv2/ | 16:19 |
falktx | lilv_world_add_plugin(): error: ... and file:///home/falktx/.lv2//tap-dynamics.lv2/ | 16:19 |
falktx | that's what happens when I call load_all after a unload_bundle | 16:19 |
drobilla | Yes, it uses the first found one when duplicates are encountered | 16:20 |
drobilla | Needs to consider the case that they are the same, I suppose | 16:20 |
falktx | but I might have upgraded a plugin | 16:20 |
falktx | reuse the first one is not a good solution either | 16:20 |
drobilla | Yes. This is not written for that | 16:20 |
drobilla | Which as I have said many times is a situation not accounted for by anyone whatsoever including me, yet :) | 16:21 |
drobilla | It's written for actual duplicates | 16:21 |
falktx | then I guess recreate the world it is | 16:21 |
drobilla | Well, if unload actually removed the plugin then this would no longer happen | 16:22 |
drobilla | It's not as easy to figure out if the plugin is truly "gone" as you might think, though | 16:22 |
drobilla | If recreating the world isn't problematic, that's very definitely the most reliably correct thing by a very wide margin | 16:22 |
drobilla | Otherwise we can start addressing these things, but that's probably a very deep rabbit hole | 16:22 |
falktx | I have a list of bundles mapped to plugins though | 16:23 |
falktx | if lilv had a function to remove a single plugin it would work nicely for this | 16:23 |
falktx | ie: | 16:23 |
falktx | unload_bundle => unload_plugin => load_bundle (with updated plugin) | 16:23 |
drobilla | The trouble comes from the possibility that things may be defined in many bundles | 16:23 |
falktx | lilv_plugin_get_data_uris is there for that, kinda | 16:24 |
drobilla | Yes, something kinda fuzzy will probably work well enough | 16:25 |
drobilla | Deleting a LilvPlugin the host may have a pointer to is no good, though... | 16:25 |
drobilla | Which seems to suggest some kind of host notification is required | 16:26 |
drobilla | (which makes me think about doing so automatically with file change monitoring, but that's not portable) | 16:27 |
falktx | anyway, recreating the instance will have to work for now | 16:27 |
falktx | although we still don't have this working in ingen, just mod-ui | 16:27 |
falktx | drobilla: do you think reloading the ingen lilv world will be possible soon? | 16:28 |
drobilla | Well, see above | 16:28 |
falktx | so not soon :( | 16:29 |
drobilla | If plugins are going away, lilv is going to need changes for that, and the ability to notify the host via a registered callback that something has disappeared | 16:29 |
drobilla | Then Ingen has the issue of having a node instantiated for which a plugin no longer exists | 16:29 |
drobilla | Though it's loaded so the instance should still work | 16:29 |
falktx | in my case I don't keep any lilv pointers except the get_all_plugins one | 16:29 |
falktx | recreating the world and that pointer is easy for me | 16:29 |
drobilla | a 'reloaded' would probably be easier than remove then add again | 16:29 |
falktx | much easier afaik | 16:30 |
falktx | since lilv doesn't truly do that anyway | 16:31 |
drobilla | There's still plenty of fun there, though | 16:31 |
drobilla | e.g. node has property :foo | 16:32 |
drobilla | plugin reloaded | 16:32 |
drobilla | replace it? | 16:32 |
drobilla | maybe it was inherited from the plugin, maybe it was set by the user | 16:32 |
drobilla | falktx: I will think about it / perhaps work on it this weekend | 16:33 |
falktx | cool, thanks | 16:34 |
falktx | now if I figure out the performance issue... | 16:34 |
drobilla | probably going to give in and add a 'method' thing to the API for this | 16:34 |
drobilla | THough I fucking passionately hate having to do so with all of my soul | 16:35 |
falktx | drobilla: btw, I'm not recreating the lilv world instance on new bundles added, just when it's removed | 16:35 |
drobilla | falktx: I was just going to let it sit in callgrind for a while and see what comes out on top | 16:35 |
drobilla | falktx: Feel free to beat me to it :) | 16:35 |
drobilla | pointless buffer copy is probably happening but that shouldn't account for so much overhead | 16:35 |
falktx | ah, I tried hacking ingen code once, not my cup of tea... | 16:35 |
drobilla | Running a program does not count as hacking code ;) | 16:36 |
drobilla | Destroying the world effectively means all Lilv* things are junk | 16:36 |
falktx | I hacked ingen once to add the version info | 16:36 |
falktx | took me a while for such a simple patch :( | 16:37 |
falktx | that reminds me, the bypass issue is still not fixed | 16:37 |
falktx | some small configurations still produce noise | 16:37 |
* drobilla shrugs | 16:37 | |
falktx | I'll update the bug report if I find it... | 16:37 |
drobilla | The server is pretty simple if you understand the architecture | 16:37 |
drobilla | The things in-between not so much, but that doesn't need tinkering very often | 16:38 |
falktx | it's just done in a way I'm not used to | 16:38 |
falktx | very "commercial" or "enterprisy", not sure if that makes sense... | 16:38 |
drobilla | hah. | 16:40 |
falktx | :) | 16:40 |
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drobilla | You've clearly never seen real enterprisey ;) | 16:47 |
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drobilla | It is, however, a true client-server system, so you need to think about it in that way if you're going to do anything that touches UI<=>server interaction | 16:48 |
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rgareus | falktx: can DPF produce windows LV2s ? | 19:45 |
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falktx | rgareus: yes | 20:12 |
falktx | want a specific one? | 20:12 |
falktx | I'll do a release once I finish some basic MOD integration | 20:13 |
falktx | ie, export version & license, modgui in manifest seealso, etc | 20:13 |
rgareus | falktx: nettings asked on ardour-users | 20:17 |
rgareus | falktx: LV2 has the nice property that the session can be moved (same URI everywhere) | 20:17 |
falktx | if the host is smart enough, all specs can do that | 20:18 |
falktx | but not as nice as lv2 | 20:18 |
rgareus | translating VST presets to AU Presets to LV2 presets or automation.. is tricky | 20:19 |
falktx | vst presets even worse, since plugins must save state for all of them internally | 20:19 |
rgareus | falktx: the original request was: http://lists.ardour.org/pipermail/ardour-users-ardour.org/2015-May/027196.html | 20:26 |
rgareus | EQ and High-pass are satisfied by fil4.lv2 the rest is still unsolved. | 20:27 |
falktx | rgareus: no other framework allows fully free vst builds (dpf doesn't use vst sdk) | 20:28 |
falktx | but there's no AU support yet | 20:28 |
rgareus | LV2 on OSX? | 20:28 |
falktx | yes, and vst | 20:28 |
falktx | although no carbon | 20:28 |
rgareus | carbon? that's read. | 20:28 |
falktx | with cockos extensions you can have cocoa on 32bit mac vsts | 20:29 |
rgareus | s/read/dead/ | 20:29 |
falktx | I implement this extension | 20:29 |
falktx | rgareus: good :) | 20:29 |
rgareus | yeah there's no official VST 64bit spec. nor VST + cocoa. only de-facto extenstions | 20:29 |
falktx | hm? there is official 64bit vst | 20:29 |
falktx | 2.4 made 64bit official | 20:29 |
rgareus | not on OSX | 20:29 |
falktx | but 2.3 already used carbon, so it couldn't be changed | 20:30 |
falktx | renoise and other hosts load 64bit vsts just fine | 20:30 |
rgareus | but LV2 . pugl everywhere. who cares about VST. | 20:30 |
falktx | I do | 20:30 |
falktx | most users do too | 20:30 |
rgareus | falktx: yes, but there's no official OSX 64bit VST spec from steinberg. only a de-fact standard (from reaper) | 20:30 |
falktx | hmm | 20:31 |
falktx | there's no 32bit cocoa vst spec | 20:31 |
rgareus | VST 3.0 solves that | 20:31 |
falktx | 64bit uses cocoa, always did | 20:31 |
rgareus | exactly VST2.X on OSX is carbon only. and carbon is 32bit only. | 20:31 |
falktx | vst2.x on mac 64bit is cocoa | 20:31 |
rgareus | ^^ according to Steinberg | 20:31 |
rgareus | other have hacked things. | 20:31 |
falktx | ... | 20:31 |
falktx | you're misinformed again | 20:32 |
rgareus | falktx: there's no VST 2.x cocoa spec. I'm certain. | 20:32 |
falktx | there is | 20:32 |
rgareus | where? | 20:32 |
falktx | for 64bit | 20:32 |
rgareus | from steinberg? | 20:33 |
falktx | there's no carbon on 64bit | 20:33 |
falktx | yes | 20:33 |
falktx | ! | 20:33 |
rgareus | at least we agree that carobon is 32bit only :) | 20:33 |
falktx | because there was no carbon on 64bit, the vst ui pointer is cocoa | 20:33 |
rgareus | falktx: right, but that's a hack the reaper guys did and others adopted. | 20:34 |
falktx | sigh | 20:34 |
falktx | vst 2.x 64bit has always used cocoa | 20:34 |
falktx | I'll repeat that | 20:34 |
falktx | vst 2.x 64bit has always used cocoa | 20:34 |
rgareus | falktx: I repeat: there is no official spec for 64 bit VST2.x on OSX. Steinberg touts VST3 as first official solution. | 20:35 |
rgareus | https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/mac-os-x-64-bit-support.html they used a 32/64bit bridge | 20:36 |
falktx | regardless, there's no support for linux vsts as well | 20:37 |
rgareus | well, let's just use LV2s.. | 20:37 |
falktx | but there's a ton of vsts | 20:37 |
falktx | linux vsts | 20:37 |
falktx | just because it's not "official" doesn't mean it's the sorta official way to do it | 20:38 |
falktx | rgareus: that page doesn't confirm it's not official | 20:38 |
rgareus | sure, but for the case at hand.. (nettings' workshop using ardour) LV2 seem the way to go. portable settings. presets, etc (for demo sessions).. | 20:38 |
rgareus | "sorta official" ? | 20:38 |
* rgareus gives up | 20:38 | |
falktx | there's no official vst linux docs but everyone knows the ptr is a X11 window | 20:39 |
rgareus | it became a de-facto standard for many DAWs. but only 3rd party DAWs. | 20:39 |
falktx | no dev will be stupid enough to make a vst and then pass a wayland id in there | 20:39 |
rgareus | falktx: uhm. some devs pass FLTK window-ids as LV2 X11 window-ids. and those devs are not stupid in general.. | 20:41 |
rgareus | it will just be a matter of time until we see wayland IDs :) | 20:41 |
falktx | anyway, discussing dead things is not nice | 20:42 |
falktx | the fact is, there is vst2 64bit osx builds out there from several companies | 20:42 |
falktx | and several hosts support 64bit vst2 plugins (cocoa only, obviously) | 20:42 |
rgareus | http://www.reaper.fm/sdk/vst/vst_ext.php "OS X: Cocoa Extension, 64-bit Support" is a "reaper extension" | 20:42 |
falktx | you're reading it wrong again | 20:43 |
falktx | "Using Cocoa for UI of VST plug-ins within REAPER will result in a much cleaner integration, and has numerous advantages, including 64-bit (x86_64) support" | 20:43 |
falktx | that means, if you do your UI in cocoa you already support vst 64bit builds without any code changes | 20:44 |
falktx | the same can't be said about carbon code | 20:44 |
rgareus | read the sentence before and after the one you posted. it makes it clear that this is a an extension invented by Cockos. | 20:44 |
falktx | ah, the next sentence is the important one | 20:45 |
falktx | "Note: on x86_64, REAPER assumes that all configuration windows are Cocoa, as Carbon is not supported. " | 20:45 |
falktx | this is what *all* hosts are doing *right now* | 20:45 |
rgareus | right it does make sense. | 20:45 |
falktx | rgareus: you're becoming a lot like drobilla... | 20:45 |
* rgareus takes this as compliment | 20:46 | |
rgareus | host needs to ask effCanDo hasCockosViewAsConfig -> plugin needs to say 0xbeef0000 -> means "yes, Cocoa". not very Steinbergy. | 20:47 |
falktx | all vst "extensions" are done this way | 20:48 |
falktx | that or via Vendor opcodes | 20:49 |
falktx | rgareus: https://github.com/DISTRHO/DPF/blob/master/distrho/src/DistrhoPluginVST.cpp#L622 :) | 20:49 |
rgareus | more beef | 20:49 |
* rgareus wants an LV2 beef uri | 20:50 | |
falktx | http://www.food.com/beef | 20:51 |
rgareus | beef was depreated in 1.14 in favor of BSE. | 20:52 |
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ssj71 | mverb should work cross platform. no? | 20:54 |
falktx | yes | 20:54 |
falktx | but I'm not able to build opengl2 stuff with mingw :( | 20:54 |
ssj71 | mverb depends on opengl2? | 20:55 |
falktx | the UI yes | 20:55 |
falktx | for drawing text | 20:55 |
falktx | all dpf UIs are opengl you know | 20:56 |
falktx | pugl, etc | 20:56 |
ssj71 | I suppose he wanted the UI :\ | 20:56 |
rgareus | pugl is just opengl1.2 | 20:56 |
falktx | yes, but nanovg is gl2 | 20:56 |
rgareus | aah. | 20:56 |
falktx | why should I look into drawing text myself when nanovg already does it? | 20:57 |
ssj71 | theres a resolved issue in nanovg that allows it to work with mingw | 20:59 |
ssj71 | dunno if that changes anything | 20:59 |
rgareus | there's also ftgl and pango,.. | 21:00 |
falktx | I don't want external deps | 21:01 |
falktx | ssj71: problem is mingw only provides gl1.x dlls | 21:01 |
ssj71 | I'm outside my relm of experience. I just googled mingw nanovg and found the merged pull request | 21:03 |
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falktx | hmm, maybe I can try something... | 21:08 |
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falktx | ssj71: can you wait 10mins? | 21:20 |
ssj71 | I'm just at work. I have a couple hours. | 21:21 |
* ssj71 isn't sure what he's waiting for. | 21:21 | |
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falktx | I'm making the build work on windows | 21:28 |
falktx | it's about time | 21:28 |
ssj71 | its only gonna take 10 minutes!? | 21:31 |
falktx | I think it's done | 21:32 |
falktx | let's see if it runs | 21:32 |
falktx | Unhandled page fault on read access to 0x00000000 at address (nil) :P | 21:33 |
ssj71 | :| | 21:34 |
ssj71 | oh well. windoze is stoopid | 21:34 |
rgareus | linux can do this too: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cWyE0y3VWkc/Tid8DZt6STI/AAAAAAAAACE/DIxFipKEGJA/w1974-h1480-no/P1110448.JPG | 21:43 |
rgareus | NULL pointer dereference at (null). | 21:44 |
falktx | ahah | 21:46 |
falktx | assertion failure: "glDeleteShader != nullptr" in file src/NanoVG.cpp, line 82 | 21:46 |
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falktx | maybe it was too soon... | 21:56 |
ssj71 | too bad | 21:57 |
falktx | I mean for the code I wrote | 21:57 |
falktx | I called getAddress too soon | 21:57 |
ssj71 | cool, then theres hope. I thought that was in nanovg | 21:58 |
falktx | damn wine debugger doesn't tell me where it crashes | 22:02 |
rgareus | falktx: that's the reason why we don't support ardour-linux/win-VST builds. winegdb is mostly useless | 22:14 |
rgareus | apart from the fact that bundling wine with ardour is pretty much impossible. | 22:15 |
falktx | I have no idea what's going on here | 22:16 |
falktx | the window gets created, the ui too, the nanovg class is never called | 22:16 |
rgareus | falktx: some missing static init? | 22:18 |
rgareus | or missing font-files? | 22:18 |
falktx | well, at least I can get it to build without gl2 now. shows ui but no text | 22:21 |
ssj71 | can't you use gdb in mingw? | 22:25 |
falktx | I know what the issue is | 22:28 |
falktx | the gl functions are null | 22:28 |
falktx | shit! now it works! | 22:31 |
ssj71 | woot. I hope this is the beginning of lv2 taking over the world | 22:33 |
ssj71 | \o/ | 22:34 |
rgareus | falktx: wglGetProcAddress stuff? | 22:35 |
falktx | yes | 22:36 |
rgareus | ssj71: there's a windows build of gdb (that works on windows). linux gdb only works for ELF binaries. for wine there's winegdb and it's far less useful. | 22:37 |
falktx | ssj71: what type of build do you need? lv2/vst, 32/64bit? | 22:42 |
ssj71 | falktx: rgareus was asking. I was just curious | 22:42 |
falktx | ... | 22:43 |
rgareus | ell vee two | 22:43 |
rgareus | ell vee two | 22:43 |
rgareus | for vst would -> #vst :) | 22:43 |
falktx | le vez toi | 22:44 |
falktx | I somehow got the impression someone wanted mverb 64bit windows builds... | 22:45 |
* falktx is getting paranoid | 22:45 | |
falktx | rgareus: do you want a windows-lv2/vst mverb build? | 22:46 |
ssj71 | falktx: nilsege was asking about cross platform plugins for basic mixing needs on the ardour lists. rgareus asked about it here. I was thinking of specific plugins | 22:47 |
ssj71 | so I brought up mverb. | 22:47 |
falktx | do you want the build? | 22:48 |
ssj71 | for windows? eww no. | 22:48 |
falktx | wtf, why did I even bother with this then... | 22:49 |
falktx | for reference https://github.com/DISTRHO/DPF/commit/6bcf028f0ab97f4f5f5f66df45614fc91559e159 | 22:49 |
rgareus | falktx: yes, that'd be cool. | 22:50 |
ssj71 | falktx: to prove you can do it | 22:50 |
rgareus | falktx: do you have a no-frills compressor, too? | 22:50 |
ssj71 | now you're a level 200 mage | 22:50 |
rgareus | more x-platform LV2 would be cool. really it's a chicken/egg. | 22:53 |
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ssj71 | rgareus: I'm guessing the zam-audio compressor has too many frills? | 22:54 |
ssj71 | its DPF | 22:55 |
rgareus | maybe just right. | 22:56 |
rgareus | "Thres, Ratio, Attack, Release, Knee would be nice, Make-up, with scales that look at least plausible" | 22:57 |
falktx | rgareus: did a quick release on github and uploaded win32+win64 binaries https://github.com/DISTRHO/MVerb/releases | 22:57 |
falktx | rgareus: both lv2 and vst included | 22:57 |
rgareus | falktx: cool. | 22:57 |
rgareus | falktx: are you on the ardour-users ML? | 22:57 |
falktx | rgareus: do you have access to a windows machine? it would be nice to confirm it works on real windows | 22:57 |
falktx | rgareus: no | 22:57 |
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falktx | rgareus: mverb already has a vst dll btw (the original project) | 22:58 |
rgareus | falktx: I have a Virtualbox Windows 7 | 22:58 |
falktx | I have one at the office but it keeps freezing my pc when I shut down the VM :( | 22:58 |
falktx | damn windows | 22:58 |
ssj71 | I use windows at work. I could try it out monday | 22:58 |
ssj71 | you'll have to remind me | 22:58 |
rgareus | I'll do a quick test. | 22:58 |
falktx | rgareus: I did not contact the author for the port btw :P | 22:59 |
rgareus | extensive test will have to wait till tomorrow | 22:59 |
falktx | it's gpl and I give full credits anyway | 22:59 |
falktx | also this one rocks on the mod | 23:00 |
falktx | light and perfect quality :D | 23:00 |
falktx | also, it has presets! | 23:00 |
ssj71 | yay presets! precious few plugins have them | 23:01 |
ssj71 | anyhow g2g | 23:02 |
ssj71 | nice work falktx | 23:02 |
ssj71 | have a good weekend all | 23:02 |
rgareus | falktx: 64bit LV2 works! | 23:03 |
falktx | nice! | 23:03 |
falktx | screenshot? | 23:03 |
rgareus | http://robin.linuxaudio.org/tmp/mverb_win64_lv2.png | 23:04 |
falktx | hm, no alpha transparency support? | 23:04 |
rgareus | maybe the VM | 23:05 |
falktx | still, it displays everything. that's good | 23:06 |
rgareus | presets work, too | 23:07 |
falktx | dpf baby! :) | 23:07 |
rgareus | now.. can we have all DPF plugins as win32/64 LV2 ? :) | 23:08 |
falktx | hmm, sure | 23:09 |
falktx | it's not an official release though | 23:10 |
rgareus | well, you gotta start somewhere. | 23:10 |
rgareus | falktx: I can post to the ardour users ML. mixbus users may be interested in this as well. | 23:10 |
falktx | sure | 23:11 |
falktx | rgareus: I made a new plugin btw, https://github.com/DISTRHO/Kars | 23:13 |
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rgareus | falktx: neat, how does it sound? | 23:17 |
falktx | good enough | 23:19 |
falktx | some chorus and reverb helps | 23:19 |
falktx | combine it with a high pitch e-piano and it's delicious | 23:19 |
falktx | rgareus: done https://github.com/falkTX/DPF-Plugins/releases | 23:23 |
falktx | rgareus: if you post to ardour ML, make sure to tell them to report any issues | 23:23 |
rgareus | falktx: to where? https://github.com/falkTX/DPF-Plugins/issues ? | 23:23 |
falktx | as I don't use windows I don't really know what messy things those vsts are really doing... | 23:23 |
falktx | rgareus: yes | 23:23 |
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falktx | I need to move that to DISTRHO perhaps, and not falkTX. not sure... but it will stay there for this year | 23:24 |
rgareus | falktx: when you can't sleep one night. I suggest to add a nsis installer.. | 23:24 |
falktx | no | 23:24 |
rgareus | why not? | 23:24 |
falktx | I hate plugins that use installers | 23:24 |
falktx | give me the damn plugin files directly please | 23:24 |
falktx | when plugins used installers I always used 7zip when possible | 23:25 |
rgareus | falktx: most users are on the opposite end. unzip.. and now what?! nobody reads a fuckin' README on windows | 23:26 |
rgareus | falktx: my solution to this is to do both: zip and installer :( | 23:26 |
falktx | meh, supporting windows is already a pain | 23:27 |
falktx | they'll get zip or nothing | 23:28 |
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