Friday, 2015-10-16

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falktxrgareus: small nickpicking...10:30
falktxsetbfree output ports are:10:30
falktxLeft output10:30
falktxRight Output10:30
falktxone of those names has a 'O' in caps, the other does not :)10:31
rgareusfalktx: thanks.10:33
rgareusfalktx: fixed10:33
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falktxingen is using 5% dsp load with no plugins loaded :(11:29
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rgareusfalktx: doing what?12:50
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falktxgood question13:13
drobillafalktx: odd.  What's in the root graph?14:24
falktxnothing, just some ports that connect to hw14:33
drobilladefine "some"14:33
falktx2 audio ins + outs, 1 midi in + out14:34
falktxconnected to their matching outside jack ports14:34
falktxno connections or plugins loaded in ingen14:34
drobillafalktx: OK14:38
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falktxlol14:38
rgareusingen must have overloaded his machine :)14:39
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falktxlilv doesn't seem to handle bundle removal very nicely16:16
falktxI do unload_bundle, but get_all_plugins still has references to plugins on that bundle16:16
drobillaCorrect.  It does not go through the bundle contents and remove everything defined in it16:18
falktxbut I can't do load_all because it will cause duplicates16:18
falktxthe only solution seems to be to recreate the world instance16:18
drobillaThat much shouldn't happen at least16:18
falktx(sorry for paste, quicker...)16:19
falktxlilv_world_add_plugin(): error: Duplicate plugin <http://moddevices.com/plugins/tap/dynamics>16:19
falktxlilv_world_add_plugin(): error: ... found in file:///home/falktx/.lv2//tap-dynamics.lv2/16:19
falktxlilv_world_add_plugin(): error: ... and      file:///home/falktx/.lv2//tap-dynamics.lv2/16:19
falktxthat's what happens when I call load_all after a unload_bundle16:19
drobillaYes, it uses the first found one when duplicates are encountered16:20
drobillaNeeds to consider the case that they are the same, I suppose16:20
falktxbut I might have upgraded a plugin16:20
falktxreuse the first one is not a good solution either16:20
drobillaYes.  This is not written for that16:20
drobillaWhich as I have said many times is a situation not accounted for by anyone whatsoever including me, yet :)16:21
drobillaIt's written for actual duplicates16:21
falktxthen I guess recreate the world it is16:21
drobillaWell, if unload actually removed the plugin then this would no longer happen16:22
drobillaIt's not as easy to figure out if the plugin is truly "gone" as you might think, though16:22
drobillaIf recreating the world isn't problematic, that's very definitely the most reliably correct thing by a very wide margin16:22
drobillaOtherwise we can start addressing these things, but that's probably a very deep rabbit hole16:22
falktxI have a list of bundles mapped to plugins though16:23
falktxif lilv had a function to remove a single plugin it would work nicely for this16:23
falktxie:16:23
falktxunload_bundle => unload_plugin => load_bundle (with updated plugin)16:23
drobillaThe trouble comes from the possibility that things may be defined in many bundles16:23
falktxlilv_plugin_get_data_uris is there for that, kinda16:24
drobillaYes, something kinda fuzzy will probably work well enough16:25
drobillaDeleting a LilvPlugin the host may have a pointer to is no good, though...16:25
drobillaWhich seems to suggest some kind of host notification is required16:26
drobilla(which makes me think about doing so automatically with file change monitoring, but that's not portable)16:27
falktxanyway, recreating the instance will have to work for now16:27
falktxalthough we still don't have this working in ingen, just mod-ui16:27
falktxdrobilla: do you think reloading the ingen lilv world will be possible soon?16:28
drobillaWell, see above16:28
falktxso not soon :(16:29
drobillaIf plugins are going away, lilv is going to need changes for that, and the ability to notify the host via a registered callback that something has disappeared16:29
drobillaThen Ingen has the issue of having a node instantiated for which a plugin no longer exists16:29
drobillaThough it's loaded so the instance should still work16:29
falktxin my case I don't keep any lilv pointers except the get_all_plugins one16:29
falktxrecreating the world and that pointer is easy for me16:29
drobillaa 'reloaded' would probably be easier than remove then add again16:29
falktxmuch easier afaik16:30
falktxsince lilv doesn't truly do that anyway16:31
drobillaThere's still plenty of fun there, though16:31
drobillae.g. node has property :foo16:32
drobillaplugin reloaded16:32
drobillareplace it?16:32
drobillamaybe it was inherited from the plugin, maybe it was set by the user16:32
drobillafalktx: I will think about it / perhaps work on it this weekend16:33
falktxcool, thanks16:34
falktxnow if I figure out the performance issue...16:34
drobillaprobably going to give in and add a 'method' thing to the API for this16:34
drobillaTHough I fucking passionately hate having to do so with all of my soul16:35
falktxdrobilla: btw, I'm not recreating the lilv world instance on new bundles added, just when it's removed16:35
drobillafalktx: I was just going to let it sit in callgrind for a while and see what comes out on top16:35
drobillafalktx: Feel free to beat me to it :)16:35
drobillapointless buffer copy is probably happening but that shouldn't account for so much overhead16:35
falktxah, I tried hacking ingen code once, not my cup of tea...16:35
drobillaRunning a program does not count as hacking code ;)16:36
drobillaDestroying the world effectively means all Lilv* things are junk16:36
falktxI hacked ingen once to add the version info16:36
falktxtook me a while for such a simple patch :(16:37
falktxthat reminds me, the bypass issue is still not fixed16:37
falktxsome small configurations still produce noise16:37
* drobilla shrugs16:37
falktxI'll update the bug report if I find it...16:37
drobillaThe server is pretty simple if you understand the architecture16:37
drobillaThe things in-between not so much, but that doesn't need tinkering very often16:38
falktxit's just done in a way I'm not used to16:38
falktxvery "commercial" or "enterprisy", not sure if that makes sense...16:38
drobillahah.16:40
falktx:)16:40
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drobillaYou've clearly never seen real enterprisey ;)16:47
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drobillaIt is, however, a true client-server system, so you need to think about it in that way if you're going to do anything that touches UI<=>server interaction16:48
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rgareusfalktx: can DPF produce windows LV2s ?19:45
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falktxrgareus: yes20:12
falktxwant a specific one?20:12
falktxI'll do a release once I finish some basic MOD integration20:13
falktxie, export version & license, modgui in manifest seealso, etc20:13
rgareusfalktx: nettings asked on ardour-users20:17
rgareusfalktx: LV2 has the nice property that the session can be moved (same URI everywhere)20:17
falktxif the host is smart enough, all specs can do that20:18
falktxbut not as nice as lv220:18
rgareustranslating VST presets to AU Presets to LV2 presets   or automation.. is tricky20:19
falktxvst presets even worse, since plugins must save state for all of them internally20:19
rgareusfalktx: the original request was:  http://lists.ardour.org/pipermail/ardour-users-ardour.org/2015-May/027196.html20:26
rgareusEQ and High-pass are satisfied by fil4.lv2  the rest is still unsolved.20:27
falktxrgareus: no other framework allows fully free vst builds (dpf doesn't use vst sdk)20:28
falktxbut there's no AU support yet20:28
rgareusLV2 on OSX?20:28
falktxyes, and vst20:28
falktxalthough no carbon20:28
rgareuscarbon?  that's read.20:28
falktxwith cockos extensions you can have cocoa on 32bit mac vsts20:29
rgareuss/read/dead/20:29
falktxI implement this extension20:29
falktxrgareus: good :)20:29
rgareusyeah there's no official VST 64bit spec.  nor VST + cocoa.  only de-facto extenstions20:29
falktxhm? there is official 64bit vst20:29
falktx2.4 made 64bit official20:29
rgareusnot on OSX20:29
falktxbut 2.3 already used carbon, so it couldn't be changed20:30
falktxrenoise and other hosts load 64bit vsts just fine20:30
rgareusbut LV2 . pugl everywhere.  who cares about VST.20:30
falktxI do20:30
falktxmost users do too20:30
rgareusfalktx: yes, but there's no official OSX 64bit VST spec from steinberg.  only a de-fact standard (from reaper)20:30
falktxhmm20:31
falktxthere's no 32bit cocoa vst spec20:31
rgareusVST 3.0 solves that20:31
falktx64bit uses cocoa, always did20:31
rgareusexactly  VST2.X on OSX is  carbon only.  and carbon is 32bit only.20:31
falktxvst2.x on mac 64bit is cocoa20:31
rgareus^^ according to Steinberg20:31
rgareusother have hacked things.20:31
falktx...20:31
falktxyou're misinformed again20:32
rgareusfalktx: there's no VST 2.x cocoa spec.   I'm certain.20:32
falktxthere is20:32
rgareuswhere?20:32
falktxfor 64bit20:32
rgareusfrom steinberg?20:33
falktxthere's no carbon on 64bit20:33
falktxyes20:33
falktx!20:33
rgareusat least we agree that carobon is 32bit only :)20:33
falktxbecause there was no carbon on 64bit, the vst ui pointer is cocoa20:33
rgareusfalktx: right, but that's a hack the reaper guys did and others adopted.20:34
falktxsigh20:34
falktxvst 2.x 64bit has always used cocoa20:34
falktxI'll repeat that20:34
falktxvst 2.x 64bit has always used cocoa20:34
rgareusfalktx: I repeat: there is no official spec for 64 bit VST2.x  on OSX.   Steinberg touts VST3 as first official solution.20:35
rgareushttps://www.steinberg.net/en/support/knowledgebase_new/show_details/kb_show/mac-os-x-64-bit-support.html   they used a 32/64bit bridge20:36
falktxregardless, there's no support for linux vsts as well20:37
rgareuswell, let's just use LV2s..20:37
falktxbut there's a ton of vsts20:37
falktxlinux vsts20:37
falktxjust because it's not "official" doesn't mean it's the sorta official way to do it20:38
falktxrgareus: that page doesn't confirm it's not official20:38
rgareussure, but for the case at hand.. (nettings' workshop using ardour)  LV2 seem the way to go.  portable settings. presets, etc (for demo sessions)..20:38
rgareus"sorta official" ?20:38
* rgareus gives up20:38
falktxthere's no official vst linux docs but everyone knows the ptr is a X11 window20:39
rgareusit became a de-facto standard for many DAWs.  but only 3rd party DAWs.20:39
falktxno dev will be stupid enough to make a vst and then pass a wayland id in there20:39
rgareusfalktx: uhm.  some devs  pass FLTK window-ids  as LV2 X11 window-ids.  and those devs are not stupid in general..20:41
rgareusit will just be a matter of time until we see wayland IDs :)20:41
falktxanyway, discussing dead things is not nice20:42
falktxthe fact is, there is vst2 64bit osx builds out there from several companies20:42
falktxand several hosts support 64bit vst2 plugins (cocoa only, obviously)20:42
rgareushttp://www.reaper.fm/sdk/vst/vst_ext.php   "OS X: Cocoa Extension, 64-bit Support"  is a "reaper extension"20:42
falktxyou're reading it wrong again20:43
falktx"Using Cocoa for UI of VST plug-ins within REAPER will result in a much cleaner integration, and has numerous advantages, including 64-bit (x86_64) support"20:43
falktxthat means, if you do your UI in cocoa you already support vst 64bit builds without any code changes20:44
falktxthe same can't be said about carbon code20:44
rgareusread the sentence before and after the one you posted.  it makes it clear that this is a an extension invented by Cockos.20:44
falktxah, the next sentence is the important one20:45
falktx"Note: on x86_64, REAPER assumes that all configuration windows are Cocoa, as Carbon is not supported. "20:45
falktxthis is what *all* hosts are doing *right now*20:45
rgareusright it does make sense.20:45
falktxrgareus: you're becoming a lot like drobilla...20:45
* rgareus takes this as compliment20:46
rgareushost needs to ask effCanDo    hasCockosViewAsConfig  -> plugin needs to say  0xbeef0000  -> means "yes, Cocoa".   not very Steinbergy.20:47
falktxall vst "extensions" are done this way20:48
falktxthat or via Vendor opcodes20:49
falktxrgareus: https://github.com/DISTRHO/DPF/blob/master/distrho/src/DistrhoPluginVST.cpp#L622 :)20:49
rgareusmore beef20:49
* rgareus wants an LV2 beef uri20:50
falktxhttp://www.food.com/beef20:51
rgareusbeef was depreated in 1.14 in favor of BSE.20:52
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ssj71mverb should work cross platform. no?20:54
falktxyes20:54
falktxbut I'm not able to build opengl2 stuff with mingw :(20:54
ssj71mverb depends on opengl2?20:55
falktxthe UI yes20:55
falktxfor drawing text20:55
falktxall dpf UIs are opengl you know20:56
falktxpugl, etc20:56
ssj71I suppose he wanted the UI :\20:56
rgareuspugl is just opengl1.220:56
falktxyes, but nanovg is gl220:56
rgareusaah.20:56
falktxwhy should I look into drawing text myself when nanovg already does it?20:57
ssj71theres a resolved issue in nanovg that allows it to work with mingw20:59
ssj71dunno if that changes anything20:59
rgareusthere's also ftgl and pango,..21:00
falktxI don't want external deps21:01
falktxssj71: problem is mingw only provides gl1.x dlls21:01
ssj71I'm outside my relm of experience. I just googled mingw nanovg and found the merged pull request21:03
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falktxhmm, maybe I can try something...21:08
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falktxssj71: can you wait 10mins?21:20
ssj71I'm just at work. I have a couple hours.21:21
* ssj71 isn't sure what he's waiting for. 21:21
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falktxI'm making the build work on windows21:28
falktxit's about time21:28
ssj71its only gonna take 10 minutes!?21:31
falktxI think it's done21:32
falktxlet's see if it runs21:32
falktxUnhandled page fault on read access to 0x00000000 at address (nil) :P21:33
ssj71:|21:34
ssj71oh well. windoze is stoopid21:34
rgareuslinux can do this too: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cWyE0y3VWkc/Tid8DZt6STI/AAAAAAAAACE/DIxFipKEGJA/w1974-h1480-no/P1110448.JPG21:43
rgareusNULL pointer dereference at (null).21:44
falktxahah21:46
falktxassertion failure: "glDeleteShader != nullptr" in file src/NanoVG.cpp, line 8221:46
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falktxmaybe it was too soon...21:56
ssj71too bad21:57
falktxI mean for the code I wrote21:57
falktxI called  getAddress too soon21:57
ssj71cool, then theres hope. I thought that was in nanovg21:58
falktxdamn wine debugger doesn't tell me where it crashes22:02
rgareusfalktx: that's the reason why we don't support ardour-linux/win-VST builds.   winegdb is mostly useless22:14
rgareusapart from the fact that bundling wine with ardour is pretty much impossible.22:15
falktxI have no idea what's going on here22:16
falktxthe window gets created, the ui too, the nanovg class is never called22:16
rgareusfalktx: some missing static init?22:18
rgareusor missing font-files?22:18
falktxwell, at least I can get it to build without gl2 now. shows ui but no text22:21
ssj71can't you use gdb in mingw?22:25
falktxI know what the issue is22:28
falktxthe gl functions are null22:28
falktxshit! now it works!22:31
ssj71woot. I hope this is the beginning of lv2 taking over the world22:33
ssj71\o/22:34
rgareusfalktx: wglGetProcAddress  stuff?22:35
falktxyes22:36
rgareusssj71: there's a windows build of gdb (that works on windows).  linux gdb only works for ELF binaries.  for wine there's winegdb and it's far less useful.22:37
falktxssj71: what type of build do you need? lv2/vst, 32/64bit?22:42
ssj71falktx: rgareus was asking. I was just curious22:42
falktx...22:43
rgareusell vee two22:43
rgareusell vee two22:43
rgareusfor vst would -> #vst  :)22:43
falktxle vez toi22:44
falktxI somehow got the impression someone wanted mverb 64bit windows builds...22:45
* falktx is getting paranoid22:45
falktxrgareus: do you want a windows-lv2/vst mverb build?22:46
ssj71falktx: nilsege was asking about cross platform plugins for basic mixing needs on the ardour lists. rgareus asked about it here. I was thinking of specific plugins22:47
ssj71so I brought up mverb.22:47
falktxdo you want the build?22:48
ssj71for windows? eww no.22:48
falktxwtf, why did I even bother with this then...22:49
falktxfor reference https://github.com/DISTRHO/DPF/commit/6bcf028f0ab97f4f5f5f66df45614fc91559e15922:49
rgareusfalktx: yes, that'd be cool.22:50
ssj71falktx: to prove you can do it22:50
rgareusfalktx: do you have a no-frills compressor, too?22:50
ssj71now you're a level 200 mage22:50
rgareusmore x-platform LV2 would be cool.  really it's a chicken/egg.22:53
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ssj71rgareus: I'm guessing the zam-audio compressor has too many frills?22:54
ssj71its DPF22:55
rgareusmaybe just right.22:56
rgareus"Thres, Ratio, Attack, Release, Knee would be nice, Make-up, with scales that look at least plausible"22:57
falktxrgareus: did a quick release on github and uploaded win32+win64 binaries https://github.com/DISTRHO/MVerb/releases22:57
falktxrgareus: both lv2 and vst included22:57
rgareusfalktx: cool.22:57
rgareusfalktx: are you on the ardour-users ML?22:57
falktxrgareus: do you have access to a windows machine? it would be nice to confirm it works on real windows22:57
falktxrgareus: no22:57
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falktxrgareus: mverb already has a vst dll btw (the original project)22:58
rgareusfalktx: I have a Virtualbox Windows 722:58
falktxI have one at the office but it keeps freezing my pc when I shut down the VM :(22:58
falktxdamn windows22:58
ssj71I use windows at work. I could try it out monday22:58
ssj71you'll have to remind me22:58
rgareusI'll do a quick test.22:58
falktxrgareus: I did not contact the author for the port btw :P22:59
rgareusextensive test will have to wait till tomorrow22:59
falktxit's gpl and I give full credits anyway22:59
falktxalso this one rocks on the mod23:00
falktxlight and perfect quality :D23:00
falktxalso, it has presets!23:00
ssj71yay presets! precious few plugins have them23:01
ssj71anyhow g2g23:02
ssj71nice work falktx23:02
ssj71have a good weekend all23:02
rgareusfalktx: 64bit LV2 works!23:03
falktxnice!23:03
falktxscreenshot?23:03
rgareushttp://robin.linuxaudio.org/tmp/mverb_win64_lv2.png23:04
falktxhm, no alpha transparency support?23:04
rgareusmaybe the VM23:05
falktxstill, it displays everything. that's good23:06
rgareuspresets work, too23:07
falktxdpf baby! :)23:07
rgareusnow..  can we have all DPF plugins as  win32/64 LV2 ? :)23:08
falktxhmm, sure23:09
falktxit's not an official release though23:10
rgareuswell, you gotta start somewhere.23:10
rgareusfalktx: I can post to the ardour users ML.   mixbus users may be interested in this as well.23:10
falktxsure23:11
falktxrgareus: I made a new plugin btw, https://github.com/DISTRHO/Kars23:13
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rgareusfalktx: neat, how does it sound?23:17
falktxgood enough23:19
falktxsome chorus and reverb helps23:19
falktxcombine it with a high pitch e-piano and it's delicious23:19
falktxrgareus: done https://github.com/falkTX/DPF-Plugins/releases23:23
falktxrgareus: if you post to ardour ML, make sure to tell them to report any issues23:23
rgareusfalktx: to where?  https://github.com/falkTX/DPF-Plugins/issues ?23:23
falktxas I don't use windows I don't really know what messy things those vsts are really doing...23:23
falktxrgareus: yes23:23
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falktxI need to move that to DISTRHO perhaps, and not falkTX. not sure... but it will stay there for this year23:24
rgareusfalktx: when you can't sleep one night. I suggest to add a nsis installer..23:24
falktxno23:24
rgareuswhy not?23:24
falktxI hate plugins that use installers23:24
falktxgive me the damn plugin files directly please23:24
falktxwhen plugins used installers I always used 7zip when possible23:25
rgareusfalktx: most users are on the opposite end.   unzip.. and now what?!   nobody reads a fuckin' README on windows23:26
rgareusfalktx: my solution to this is to do both: zip and installer :(23:26
falktxmeh, supporting windows is already a pain23:27
falktxthey'll get zip or nothing23:28
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