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| edogawa | rgareus: over all that packaging i forgot to say thanks for the new plugins, your collection is awesome :D also it's great to have a modern incarnation of the 4 band parametric | 07:01 |
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| rgareus | edogawa: thanks for the flowers | 19:20 |
| rgareus | I wish drobilla was here as he's an outspoken proponent of https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html | 19:21 |
| rgareus | lv2:minimum: 0.0 lv2:maximum: 1.0; pprop: lv2:integer; | 19:23 |
| rgareus | that has two possible values (0 and 1) and not just one (max-min) | 19:23 |
| edogawa | rgareus: welcome, just don't call me schleimscheißer ;) | 19:24 |
| rgareus | edogawa: heh, I won't. | 19:24 |
| rgareus | edogawa: or did I, lost in translation? | 19:25 |
| rgareus | s/flowers/praise/ maybe | 19:25 |
| edogawa | nah | 19:25 |
| edogawa | i was pondering if my praise was overshooting | 19:25 |
| * rgareus likes to produce plugins that others find awesome - that what he's in for. | 19:26 | |
| edogawa | fil4 is great in usability too, grab he handle for gain, mousewheel for Q, i like that | 19:27 |
| falktx | users want a kontakt clone, but free | 19:27 |
| falktx | or <insert-major-plugin-here> clone, but free | 19:28 |
| rgareus | edogawa: I'm actually more proud of getting the step-size right. one wheel click for 1/3 octabe bandwidth. | 19:28 |
| rgareus | octave, even | 19:28 |
| rgareus | and similar granuarlty for other controls. an important detail I'm otherwise only spoiled with by fons' jack apps. | 19:29 |
| edogawa | cool, i wasn't aware, just tested quickly this morning | 19:30 |
| rgareus | falktx: how about porting https://github.com/seven-phases/spectrum-analyzer ? | 19:30 |
| falktx | oh wow | 19:31 |
| falktx | kali? | 19:31 |
| rgareus | it's not unlike the spectrum analyzer in meters.lv2 (which also uses filter banks) | 19:32 |
| rgareus | it's less rigorous (not IEC spec compliant) and therefore has a lot more configurable controls | 19:32 |
| rgareus | http://kvraudio.com/product/spectrum-analyzer-by-seven-phases#kvrphd looks nice though | 19:33 |
| rgareus | falktx: kali? | 19:33 |
| rgareus | it's MIT licensed but currently only windows binaries exist. | 19:34 |
| falktx | that plugin is using 'kali' for cross-platform stuff, supposedely | 19:34 |
| falktx | oh, it's using opengl as well | 19:35 |
| rgareus | it's pretty new. so it may be a bit too early | 19:36 |
| rgareus | or maybe just the right time to point the author in the right direction (mmh lv2 mmh) before its's too late :) | 19:37 |
| falktx | hmmm dpf | 19:39 |
| rgareus | right | 19:39 |
| rgareus | different subject: did anyone ever look into getting pugl running in iOS and Android? | 19:39 |
| falktx | I'm going to look into Haiku soon | 19:39 |
| falktx | rgareus: is 20150530 the latest release of your plugins? | 19:45 |
| rgareus | falktx: yes, it's already in debian | 19:47 |
| rgareus | actually there's 20150531 (simple Makefile change only relevant for distros that don't have arch triplets) | 19:48 |
| rgareus | and there's going to be another update this week, compilation currently fails on GNU/Hurd and mips arch. I just got an email from debian | 19:48 |
| rgareus | falktx: so maybe you want to simply wait for a few more days. | 19:49 |
| falktx | rgareus: fil4.lv2 is missing from the debian description | 19:50 |
| rgareus | falktx: I've aleady ping'ed mira about it. he'll fix it along with mips & hurd (next release) | 19:50 |
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| rgareus | gnu/hurd is already fixed in the repo. (was __MACH__ vs __APPLE__ ) hurd also defines the former. | 19:51 |
| rgareus | mips I'm yet undecided. I don't think anyone will ever run LV2 platforms on a mips CPU | 19:52 |
| falktx | oh wow, pugl is on debian | 19:53 |
| falktx | rgareus: your plugins depend on a pugl as shared lib... | 19:53 |
| rgareus | has been for a long time | 19:53 |
| rgareus | mmh. they should not. maybe a false positive | 19:54 |
| falktx | libpugl-dev is on build-depends | 19:54 |
| rgareus | aah. that must be legacy. initially I used debian pugl. sometime around 2012 | 19:55 |
| rgareus | gtk is also still in the deps. | 19:55 |
| rgareus | but gtk GUIs are disabled by default now. | 19:55 |
| falktx | on my x42-plugins package libgtk2.0-dev is on build-conflicts | 19:56 |
| rgareus | heh | 19:57 |
| rgareus | I'll tell mira to either remove libgtk2.0-dev and libpugl-dev or to keep gtk and build with BUILDGTK=yes | 19:58 |
| falktx | let me see if it builds. maybe I have some patches for you too | 19:59 |
| rgareus | once ingen will be release and remain without externalUI support. GTK will be relevant. but I don't see an ingen release anytime soon.. | 19:59 |
| rgareus | and ingen is AFAICT the only host w/o externalUI. | 20:00 |
| rgareus | falktx: does carla support showInterface? | 20:00 |
| falktx | yes, since ages | 20:00 |
| falktx | it was the first host to support it | 20:00 |
| rgareus | nice | 20:00 |
| falktx | rgareus: carla supports host-side resize btw | 20:00 |
| rgareus | IIRC ardour does still not support it. | 20:00 |
| falktx | only infamous-plugins support host-side resize | 20:00 |
| rgareus | lv2 resize extenstion? | 20:01 |
| falktx | ui resize, sorry | 20:01 |
| falktx | rgareus: ingen can do x11 uis fine. why is gtk still relevant? | 20:01 |
| falktx | are your plugins still external only? | 20:01 |
| rgareus | falktx: not really. by default most come as external. | 20:02 |
| rgareus | compile time option between: X11/Cocoa/Win or externalUI and/or GTK | 20:03 |
| rgareus | X11/Cocoa/Win is only possible with idleInterface. around 2012 that was rather new. | 20:04 |
| rgareus | and even in 2015 it's far from reliable at least for meters and visualizations | 20:04 |
| falktx | idleinterface is fine. does ardour support that? | 20:05 |
| rgareus | of course | 20:05 |
| rgareus | but it's bound to gtk/gdk idle. which is not very reliable | 20:05 |
| rgareus | at least for meters and goniometer the GUI should redraw at 25fps (or the user set value in the goni) and not just on idle | 20:07 |
| rgareus | idle can be anything from 0 to 100fps | 20:07 |
| falktx | as expected I guess. | 20:08 |
| rgareus | showinteface is also linked to idle callback, hence it's not really an option. | 20:09 |
| falktx | you're not forced to use idleinterface. just return 0 | 20:10 |
| rgareus | idle is fine for some GUIs. e.g the fil4 EQ. | 20:10 |
| rgareus | but eveything that has a "realtime display" -> idle is not suitable. | 20:11 |
| falktx | poor vsts | 20:11 |
| falktx | rgareus: you can still have showinterface with 2nd thread idling. or even embed | 20:12 |
| rgareus | falktx: linux VST in ardour don't have a idle callback. they have a tight 25fps loop | 20:13 |
| rgareus | falktx: for exactly that purpose | 20:13 |
| rgareus | but gtk plugins in a gtk host -> gtk idle | 20:14 |
| falktx | Makefile:41: "The optional plugin GUI requires glib-2.0 and gtk+-2.0" | 20:14 |
| falktx | Makefile:42: "call make BUILDGTK=no to disable the GUI." | 20:14 |
| falktx | I though this was the default now | 20:14 |
| rgareus | falktx: is this the top-level makefile | 20:15 |
| falktx | no, convo | 20:15 |
| rgareus | aah. - I forgot about that one. | 20:15 |
| rgareus | mmh. what to do. convo.lv2 is still either GTK or no GUI. No GUI is fine with Ardour4 (which can provide a file-chooser UI) | 20:16 |
| falktx | no UI please | 20:17 |
| falktx | let host support lv2-path if they won't to show convo | 20:17 |
| rgareus | falktx: does carla support patch:changes with FilePath? | 20:17 |
| falktx | no file/path stuff yet | 20:17 |
| falktx | I need to create the UI side for it | 20:17 |
| rgareus | the GUI is super-simple anyway. just a file-open button. | 20:17 |
| falktx | I want a sample preview :) | 20:18 |
| rgareus | ^^ convo.lv2's GUI | 20:18 |
| falktx | ok, then carla's UI will be better than the actual plugin UI :D | 20:18 |
| rgareus | falktx: hang on . I'll make screenshots | 20:18 |
| rgareus | http://robin.linuxaudio.org/tmp/convo_generic.png vs http://robin.linuxaudio.org/tmp/convo_custom.png | 20:22 |
| rgareus | nothing spectacular | 20:22 |
| rgareus | the spectacular thing is that it can be automated :) | 20:23 |
| falktx | even ardour ui is better than the UI one | 20:23 |
| falktx | *plugin UI one | 20:24 |
| rgareus | yeah | 20:24 |
| rgareus | the plan for convo.lv2 all along was to not have a GUI. took 3 years until that finally is feasible | 20:25 |
| falktx | well, in ardour | 20:25 |
| rgareus | falktx: jalv, too | 20:26 |
| falktx | I got busy with doing plugin skins. if there was more plugins like those I'd do this sooner | 20:27 |
| rgareus | try jalv.gtk -g http://gareus.org/oss/lv2/convoLV2#Stereo | 20:27 |
| falktx | right now doesn't seem like a big loss | 20:27 |
| rgareus | AFAIK, the only other plugin is eg-sampler so far. | 20:27 |
| falktx | yep | 20:27 |
| rgareus | I don't know about fabla. | 20:28 |
| falktx | ssj71 was thinking about doing this for one of his rakarrack ports | 20:28 |
| rgareus | IMHO it's definitly the right way, if for nothing else , just as a fallback and to be able to automate it | 20:28 |
| falktx | making a new UI just for that case seems insane | 20:31 |
| falktx | in a project that has a lot of plugins already, that is. introducing UI-toolkit dependency is not nice | 20:32 |
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| rgareus | falktx: I'm not planning to make a new UI. convo.lv2's GUI is basically just eg-sampler's GUI. | 20:34 |
| falktx | I was speaking on ssj71 case | 20:35 |
| falktx | ie, I hope he doesn't add a full UI-toolkit dependency just because of a simple file-browser | 20:35 |
| falktx | rgareus: builds here. had to do some patching because my zita-convolver has no pkg-config and I build it statically | 20:39 |
| falktx | rgareus: small thing. your "the fftw3 library is not thread-safe" notice is not consistent in all plugins | 20:39 |
| flexus | hi, very nice if convo.l2 works with gui | 20:40 |
| flexus | didnt get it to work with carla at first, but i'm noob with lv2 | 20:40 |
| rgareus | falktx: thanks for the heads up | 20:42 |
| rgareus | falktx: I started to make the fftw message consistent (and not mention the static build-script unless it's a git checkout). also convo.lv2 GUI is now disabled by default | 20:43 |
| falktx | btw I get that notice even when fftw3 is static | 20:44 |
| rgareus | falktx: the message is printed unless a custom build is present in the source dir. | 20:45 |
| falktx | ok, no biggie | 20:45 |
| rgareus | falktx: debian also provides a LIBDIR/fftw3f.a | 20:45 |
| flexus | rgareus, your work, convo.lv2 ? very nice | 20:45 |
| falktx | I do too, kinda | 20:45 |
| rgareus | falktx: that debian static lib is not sufficient. | 20:45 |
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| rgareus | falktx: "make does not know -> print the warning -> let the packer sort it out" seems the best way. | 20:47 |
| falktx | I think I sorted it out enough. no shared fftw during build :) | 20:47 |
| rgareus | falktx: yep, you did. | 20:47 |
| rgareus | falktx: you also built it with -fvisibility=hidden don't you? | 20:48 |
| falktx | yes, I can show you the build log | 20:48 |
| rgareus | that's what debian does not (for the static lib) | 20:48 |
| falktx | debian doesn't do a lot of stuff | 20:48 |
| rgareus | falktx: I believe you. you provided some clues for me in the first place :) | 20:49 |
| falktx | https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-debian/+archive/ubuntu/plugins/+sourcepub/5110865/+listing-archive-extra | 20:50 |
| flexus | if your convolv2 works on cmdline my raspi is maybe fast enough for a room correction | 20:50 |
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| flexus | a lot easier than brutefir or stuff like that | 20:52 |
| rgareus | flexus: no idea. it's not comandline to begin with (it's a LV2 plugin) | 20:52 |
| rgareus | flexus: for a similar commandline app try jconvolver | 20:53 |
| ssj71 | falktx: rgareus the first release of rkrlv2 will not have any GUIs | 20:53 |
| ssj71 | and I | 20:53 |
| ssj71 | I'm not sure if I want to go down that hole for v2 or not | 20:53 |
| falktx | no need | 20:53 |
| flexus | so it depends on X right ? | 20:53 |
| falktx | just add a bunch of extra meta-data for hosts | 20:53 |
| rgareus | flexus: convo.lv2 is based on zita-convolver (same lib as jconvolver uses). jconvolver is probably evn more efficient; it has some latency. convol.lv2 uses the same lib for latency-free convolution. | 20:54 |
| ssj71 | falktx: unfortunately I feel like users won't like it without GUIs though... | 20:54 |
| flexus | zita is said to have very good code | 20:54 |
| flexus | ssj71, its a "promotion" argument, gui | 20:55 |
| rgareus | flexus: zita has definitly the most bang per byte. | 20:55 |
| falktx | "the intended usage of fftw is the opposite of what the commenters on this ticket have in mind, that is, calling fftw from multiple threads and run fftw independently in each thread" | 20:55 |
| rgareus | flexus: fons' (zita*) apps are very well designed and great, but the code itself is not always easily readable. | 20:56 |
| flexus | rgareus, for my guitar effects convo.lv2 should be the chosen one | 20:56 |
| falktx | "threaded fftw has a bunch of global resources (internal threads) that cannot be abstracted away" | 20:56 |
| flexus | a fast convolution curve switching might be practical | 20:56 |
| rgareus | ssj71: so now we're two persons nudging falktx to add a LV2 file-choser. | 20:57 |
| flexus | dont know if it even has that | 20:57 |
| falktx | rgareus: but good news, fftw now has that lock thing on git | 20:57 |
| rgareus | falktx: I compile the static fftw without threads | 20:57 |
| ssj71 | yep. I really need that for rkrlv2 | 20:57 |
| falktx | hehe, soon | 20:57 |
| ssj71 | :) | 20:57 |
| falktx | ssj71: you can speed it up by drawing a mockup of a file-chooser+preview as carla skin | 20:58 |
| rgareus | falktx: yay. fftw is slowly getting around to fixing this! | 20:58 |
| falktx | ssj71: I'll implement the mockup later, or a similar version of it | 20:58 |
| falktx | rgareus: I was reading it slowly. kinda though they were giving up on it | 20:59 |
| ssj71 | falktx: you mean for the mini guis in the channels or just in the usual edit dialog? | 20:59 |
| falktx | ssj71: the mini guis I guess. plugin skin slot things | 20:59 |
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| rgareus | falktx: it looks like it depends on --enable-threads though. | 21:00 |
| ssj71 | falktx: k. If I finish the ports before you've added it, I'll make a mockup | 21:00 |
| rgareus | falktx: so if fftw is build without threads but the host facilitates to call the planner in different threads.. then what? | 21:00 |
| flexus | rgareus, right, way over my head http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/papers/ | 21:00 |
| falktx | rgareus: don't ask me | 21:01 |
| flexus | you guys are great closing this gap | 21:03 |
| flexus | dumb question, can i use convl2 for multichannel? like more instances of the program ? | 21:04 |
| flexus | didnt have time to play around with it, i'm currently at the DRC filter generation | 21:06 |
| rgareus | flexus: depend what you mean. there are 3 variants of convo.lv2 mono in -> mono out mono-in -> stereo out. stereo in -> stereo out. | 21:06 |
| rgareus | flexus: but you can route - say 3 guitar-tracks though a single instance. | 21:07 |
| flexus | should be good to go, i need 4 mono channels | 21:08 |
| rgareus | 1 in -> 1 out (mono IR). 1 in -> 2 out (stereo IR in -> L , in -> R). 2in -> 2 out (4 chan IR L->L , L->R, R->L, R->R) | 21:08 |
| flexus | so it would be mono -> mono in my usage | 21:09 |
| rgareus | depends what you're up to. | 21:09 |
| flexus | a little bit of guitar fx and most of the time room correction in stereo with dual mono sub | 21:10 |
| rgareus | DRC is usually true stereo (4chan), but if it's used as a "reverb room effect" you can get away with a mono IR | 21:10 |
| rgareus | if you correct for a room that has 2 speakers. you need 4 IRs. | 21:11 |
| rgareus | if you simply want an effect that approximates [reverb] in that room. a simple 1 chan IR is usually sufficient | 21:12 |
| flexus | you mean a mono impulse response and use it for my guitar, yeah, pretty much enough | 21:12 |
| flexus | only for emulation of valve | 21:12 |
| rgareus | aah. | 21:12 |
| flexus | like guitarix does it, i can do it this way, no prob | 21:13 |
| rgareus | alas, tube valves are not linear. convolution won't do it | 21:13 |
| rgareus | speaker cabinets are (that's what guitarix uses convolution for) | 21:13 |
| rgareus | for a valve you'll get a different respond depending on the signal-level or gain | 21:14 |
| rgareus | for a speaker you don't. | 21:14 |
| rgareus | in guitarix the tube simulatin is a separate beast (no IRs are used for that) | 21:16 |
| flexus | right, my plan was to convulute some guitarix effects and write a convolution loadable elsewhere (measuring the imp of guitarix) | 21:17 |
| rgareus | heh | 21:17 |
| rgareus | flexus: why not use guitarix in the first place? | 21:17 |
| flexus | guitarix is nice, but i wanted to have no gui on my raspi if he does that | 21:18 |
| flexus | but thats future plan, i have to learn more on that, whats possible and what not | 21:19 |
| rgareus | really while RPi are nice toys, they're sadly not really suitable for realtime audio DSP. | 21:19 |
| flexus | if i plug my 7.1 chan usb_snd in it the bus will cry, maybe | 21:20 |
| rgareus | if you must, these days an intel Atom board is currently the best option. | 21:20 |
| rgareus | flexus: sure you can probably hack it. the RPI 2B is not bad. | 21:20 |
| flexus | hm maybe really a good option for daw processing | 21:21 |
| rgareus | flexus: but taking it on stage.. that's like taking an i386 mid 90s on stage. | 21:21 |
| flexus | nono, no stage, omg | 21:21 |
| rgareus | flexus: if it's a fun project and for learning experience. great. carry on. | 21:22 |
| flexus | my neigbours have to suffer enough | 21:22 |
| rgareus | lol | 21:22 |
| flexus | i will give you a call if trying out your conv2, best wishes with it | 21:23 |
| rgareus | flexus: cheers! | 21:23 |
| rgareus | if things continue like they are now. the RPi3 will probably be suitable to build realtime DSP to take on stage.. we'll see | 21:24 |
| flexus | intel will do something with altera (in an ideal world) | 21:25 |
| rgareus | if you have an FPGA, use it directly, no need to run a SOPC. | 21:25 |
| flexus | sorry no fpga here | 21:26 |
| rgareus | Altera is a FPGA vendor | 21:26 |
| flexus | i mean i dont know about fpga programming | 21:26 |
| rgareus | and dynamically/partial reprogrammable firmware (without reboot) has been long hailed as the killer app but it has not happend in over 15 years. | 21:27 |
| flexus | hopefuly they are doing that now | 21:28 |
| rgareus | ie synthesize/compile code directly into hardware and load that at runtime. it works for some intel CPUs (micro instructions) but not for generic DSP | 21:28 |
| rgareus | graphic card vendors tried it for a while but then also moved away towards GL shader code | 21:29 |
| flexus | miniDSP dont do that? | 21:30 |
| flexus | at a price, 100€ the box, i dont want to use something like that without other possibilities | 21:31 |
| flexus | its very limited | 21:32 |
| flexus | oh, and its windows gg | 21:34 |
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| flexus | pretty plz progress with convo.lv2 developement. maybe its my all in one solution | 21:40 |
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| rgareus | flexus: convo.lv2 has been finished more or less since 2012. no further development is planned. just minor maintenance things | 21:44 |
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| flexus | on a quick try i couldnt load it in carla, did i make something wrong? | 21:44 |
| rgareus | falktx: ^^ | 21:45 |
| rgareus | flexus: how does it fail to load? | 21:45 |
| rgareus | flexus: can you try: jalv.gtk http://gareus.org/oss/lv2/convoLV2#Mono | 21:46 |
| rgareus | flexus: to make sure it's not a problem with the plugin itself (but rather carla related) | 21:46 |
| flexus | sure, github is a little bit slow for me today | 21:46 |
| rgareus | flexus: which linux distro are you using? | 21:47 |
| falktx | I'll support what convo.lv2 needs soon | 21:47 |
| flexus | on raspi arch, on notebook ubuntu 15 | 21:47 |
| rgareus | flexus: arch. no idea. but I thought someone packaged x42-plugins there | 21:47 |
| rgareus | flexus: on Ubuntu apt-get install x42-plugins | 21:47 |
| rgareus | raspian also has x42-plugins (which includes convo.lv2) | 21:48 |
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| rgareus | falktx: what's the issue with carla & current convo.lv2 ? IIUC the 20141101 release has GTK at least on Ubuntu. | 21:50 |
| falktx | rgareus: nothing that I know. maybe I'm missing some atom thing, but no idea | 21:51 |
| flexus | i think its my fault | 21:51 |
| rgareus | flexus: could you please post the error message you get? | 21:51 |
| falktx | rgareus: I've been building your plugins without gtk2 ui for a while, so I haven't tested it | 21:51 |
| rgareus | falktx: ok. so it could be a missin UI, still the DSP part itself should instantiate. | 21:52 |
| flexus | searching for this plugin on my system i should make it fast when devs are around | 21:53 |
| rgareus | flexus: we're always around :) | 21:53 |
| rgareus | flexus: lv2ls | grep convo | 21:53 |
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| flexus | github dead at my place today hmpf | 22:01 |
| flexus | i will try it out tomorrow again. Makefile:42: *** "libzita-convolver3, libsndfile and libsamplerate are required". Schluss. | 22:10 |
| rgareus | Schluss ? seriously? | 22:10 |
| flexus | schluss = end | 22:10 |
| rgareus | is that how german gnu/make translators went with? | 22:10 |
| flexus | its a bad translation | 22:10 |
| rgareus | Ende would be more appropriate | 22:10 |
| rgareus | flexus: well, you need -dev packages for those libs | 22:11 |
| flexus | schluss is like gandalf swinging his stick on the bridge | 22:11 |
| rgareus | something like apt-get install libzita-convolver-dev libsndfile1-dev libsamplerate0-dev | 22:12 |
| flexus | ok | 22:12 |
| flexus | i always forget .dev | 22:12 |
| flexus | lots of duplicate plugins with lv2ls | 22:15 |
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| rgareus | falktx: do you have any patches that I should consider? | 22:21 |
| falktx | rgareus: no, I just needed to adapt the build for zita-convolver static | 22:24 |
| flexus | ok plugin loads, i noticed carla doesnt update the patchbay - qjackctl shows up every plugin | 22:25 |
| flexus | will play around tomorrow in detail, thx | 22:26 |
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