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| * falktx wonders what abique has against lv2 | 21:19 | |
| Anchakor1 | link? | 21:21 |
|---|---|---|
| falktx | no link, just a short history | 21:21 |
| falktx | he's porting u-he plugins to linux | 21:21 |
| falktx | did them as vst, said he would try lv2 | 21:21 |
| falktx | instead of doing lv2 he made a brand new plugin spec instead... | 21:22 |
| falktx | have you seen "clap"? | 21:22 |
| Anchakor1 | no | 21:22 |
| falktx | https://free-audio.github.io/clap/ | 21:22 |
| falktx | several degrees worse than lv2... :( | 21:23 |
| falktx | plus, another fucking spec. we needed that in linux... | 21:23 |
| Anchakor1 | how can he expect anyone to implement it? | 21:25 |
| drobilla | I think we mainly need 2 things to make sure this stays irrelevant, standard c++ wrapper, and make LV2 appear simpler without throwing out the baby with the bathwater | 21:26 |
| falktx | drobilla: did he asked anything to you or the mailing list? | 21:26 |
| drobilla | e.g. making a struct of URIDs in each extension, easily initialized with one function call (like forge does, but URIDs only) would be close enough to as simple as enums | 21:26 |
| drobilla | falktx: not a word. | 21:26 |
| falktx | I don't remember seeing any questions from him | 21:26 |
| falktx | he just gave up | 21:26 |
| drobilla | That tends to be how proprietary types operate :) | 21:26 |
| falktx | you even have a vst2lv2 wrapper | 21:27 |
| falktx | I bet it would help the initial code | 21:28 |
| drobilla | I am not worried, LV2 has so dramatically much more momentum. It is a symptom of some things we need to address, though. | 21:28 |
| Anchakor1 | ^ exactly | 21:28 |
| drobilla | It's easy to make your ideal la-la-land plugin spec when you don't actually have to care about anyone else using it or compatibility or any number of other real world things. I did that too, once :) | 21:29 |
| falktx | drobilla: according to him, u-he plugins will be released as "clap" soon :( | 21:29 |
| drobilla | Make a clap=>lv2 wrapper called crap :) | 21:29 |
| drobilla | ... actually that would sort of encourage using it, maybe not | 21:30 |
| Anchakor1 | yeah, just ignore it | 21:30 |
| falktx | haha, you know I might do that... | 21:30 |
| * drobilla lols at clap_string_size | 21:30 | |
| falktx | u-he-crap-wrapper :) | 21:30 |
| Anchakor1 | I think he will be forced to make a clap=>lv2 wrapper himself | 21:31 |
| Anchakor1 | or clap=>vst wrapper | 21:31 |
| * falktx wonders if any hosts will implement that | 21:31 | |
| falktx | there are several things wrong with clap that I found | 21:33 |
| Anchakor1 | seems like only thing which lv2 doesn't have is "Support dynamic configuration: let a modular plugin dynamically add new parameters, new outputs/inputs, etc..." | 21:33 |
| falktx | Anchakor1: does any plugin spec have that? | 21:34 |
| falktx | the major issue is that there's no dsp<->ui separation | 21:35 |
| drobilla | Yeah, dynamic I/O... | 21:37 |
| falktx | drobilla: I heard there was an aux extension coming... | 21:38 |
| drobilla | Trouble there is port descriptions, can't be in ttl really... | 21:38 |
| drobilla | So either a template could be, or all the metadata defined by code | 21:38 |
| drobilla | Since we have atoms now, the latter is reasonably possible | 21:39 |
| drobilla | A better/future lilv wouldn't care what the source is | 21:39 |
| falktx | port add/removal via atom messages? | 21:39 |
| drobilla | Not necessarily via messages, but there's the datatypes to describe properties at least | 21:39 |
| drobilla | Probably a callback | 21:40 |
| falktx | I'm up for it when it appears | 21:40 |
| falktx | testing etc | 21:40 |
| drobilla | Ingen sorely needs it to really work well as a plugin, as it happens | 21:40 |
| drobilla | I was wondering what to do with deletion the other day. I guess the index just remains free, seems better than trying to juggle existing ones which is all kinds of trouble | 21:40 |
| falktx | simple: use port symbols instead of indexes | 21:41 |
| drobilla | Sure, but runtime stuff uses indices | 21:43 |
| * drobilla needs time to work on LV2 | 21:44 | |
| falktx | drobilla: did you decide what to do with eg-amp modgui? | 21:46 |
| drobilla | falktx: Not really. | 21:46 |
| drobilla | Having an example of a totally external extension seems weird | 21:46 |
| falktx | it's a good showcase of how lv2 is extensible :) | 21:47 |
| drobilla | Maybe. Next-next release, anyway. I am trying to do a "clean up what's there first" thing for this one | 21:47 |
| drobilla | Yes, but it also adds confusion. How to present GUIs in the examples, period, probably needs some thought. | 21:48 |
| drobilla | Maybe a separate "chapter", with UIs in separate bundles, so they don't make the plugin examples any bigger than they need to be | 21:48 |
| drobilla | In which case a mod one would be much more appropriate | 21:48 |
| drobilla | The Gtk one is kinda sorta a violation of the same problem, and I've been wondering HTF to incorporate a pugl example too | 21:49 |
| drobilla | Also, the mod one would not be able to show up in the book, currently, unless I do more work on the generator to support such things | 21:51 |
| drobilla | Which means it'd probably serve as a way better example elsewhere, set up specifically for it (i.e. the mod site) | 21:52 |
| drobilla | What are all these classes, etc | 21:53 |
| * drobilla wishes Doxygen could document defines decently, and not screw them up and put them under "macros" | 22:16 | |
| drobilla | and had less shitty HTML class attributes so you could style things properly, while I'm complaining | 22:21 |
| drobilla | It's weird. It abuses the hell out of tables, but doesn't actually use them to align things | 22:27 |
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| drobilla | Hm... I sort of forgot that hosts don't use a lilv-provided URI mapper | 22:53 |
| drobilla | So URI migration is going to be a whole lot trickier to make hapen | 22:53 |
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