| drobilla | Wasn't really expecting this single-minded focus on huge images | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| HarryHaaren_ | github mirror can still be done? I know you're not a fan, but it might be the least-effort most-effect solution here? | 00:22 |
| HarryHaaren_ | also RE other LV2 development guides / blog posts in the email, I dont think that's particularly a good idea. | 00:22 |
| drobilla | Yeah. I just haven't bothered for the site repo yet | 00:23 |
| HarryHaaren_ | you have a good thing going with the "book", and its a coherent and solid tutorial | 00:23 |
| HarryHaaren_ | sure more content for book would be good, but eg my example on Atoms probably doesn't do anybody any good (anymore?) | 00:23 |
| drobilla | Well, the book is one form of needed documentation, but not everything | 00:23 |
| HarryHaaren_ | sure, examples being the other IMO | 00:23 |
| HarryHaaren_ | that stuff I was writing at the time i was learning (still am) was because I didn't find any other docs *except* code, so something > nothing was my idea there. | 00:24 |
| HarryHaaren_ | Even the ramblings of a learning-lv2 coder | 00:24 |
| HarryHaaren_ | that's not the case anymore, so -1 for including everything-lv2-tutorial | 00:24 |
| drobilla | The book *is* examples. Literally. :) | 00:25 |
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| drobilla | The reference docs are, well, a reference | 00:28 |
| drobilla | and the site is mainly a thing to point people to the place they want to go, and some auxiliary documentation like bundles and filesystem paths and such | 00:28 |
| drobilla | I've kind of given up on the site thing, though. | 00:29 |
| drobilla | Clearly I can count on the community to argue for months about slideshows... | 00:29 |
| drobilla | I will continue generally working on making the code/spec itself simpler and easier to contribute to, and writing better documentation, which will help in some ineffable way, but probably not much. | 00:31 |
| HarryHaaren_ | nah. If i were you: 1) github mirror it 2) ask for small merge requests 3) cherry-pick important stuff & things you like | 00:31 |
| HarryHaaren_ | there will be a "rush" at the start to get projects listed etc, but after a week or 2 it will cool off and that's that | 00:31 |
| drobilla | Yaya, I'll make a mirror | 00:32 |
| drobilla | Because clicking once instead of typing a command ones makes all the difference in the world, apparently | 00:32 |
| drobilla | once* | 00:33 |
| HarryHaaren_ | actually its your side it makes it easier for? That bitbucket thing is annoying right? Patches on an ML? | 00:33 |
| drobilla | Which it doesn't, but it will shut people the fuck up about it, which is lovely, and therefore worth it :) | 00:33 |
| HarryHaaren_ | I like github cause it makes my life easier for merging stuff other people have? | 00:33 |
| drobilla | HarryHaaren_: It makes zero difference. I already have your mirror as a remote. That's the whole point of git. | 00:34 |
| HarryHaaren_ | you're a practical person Drob. "if it shuts people up, you'll do more work to get them to do a little" | 00:34 |
| HarryHaaren_ | fair enough, I'll continue to push my changes there | 00:34 |
| drobilla | I'm also an evidence based person, I'll be less skeptical when I have reason to :) | 00:36 |
| drobilla | Right now I'm at the "everyone bitches about git and doesn't send any patches" | 00:36 |
| drobilla | stage. Stuff in git. yay! Still no patches. | 00:36 |
| HarryHaaren_ | on LV2 itself? Or site? | 00:36 |
| drobilla | LV2 itself, site, pugl | 00:37 |
| drobilla | rgareus's pugl merge will be the first such evidence, no doubt | 00:37 |
| HarryHaaren_ | I'm (eventually) planning to write an extension describing musical intent. You'll get a patch .. after some other items on infinite length TODO are ticked off :) | 00:37 |
| drobilla | falktx is a little more keen on forking things off in some insane direction, so we'll see about that one | 00:37 |
| HarryHaaren_ | i've not been tracking PUGL much recently: working with MOD pushed me away from GL for abit | 00:38 |
| drobilla | HarryHaaren_: Maybe the same(ish) thing as a "musical expressions" ext | 00:38 |
| drobilla | Meanwhile, I need to figure out how to *reduce* the number of extensions without breaking anything... | 00:38 |
| HarryHaaren_ | i should note though, that zix, and some of the other smaller libs you've done are a pleasure to work with: no patches needed, so no patches sent? | 00:39 |
| rgareus | drobilla: I unified all my uses of pugl, but after reading the current state of upstream pugl, sadly my intentions to merge with it have dropped to almost zero. | 00:39 |
| drobilla | Zix should really be a proper library, but I loathe to add a dependency... | 00:39 |
| drobilla | (plus I don't have to care about the API) | 00:39 |
| * drobilla shrugs | 00:40 | |
| drobilla | 1 point for the bullshit side, then :) | 00:40 |
| rgareus | drobilla: i was sincere about merging, but recent things - half-baked cairo addition etc makes it hard | 00:41 |
| * drobilla shrugs again | 00:42 | |
| drobilla | I improved it, so shoot me. | 00:42 |
| drobilla | The same couple hundred lines of code are arranged in a slightly different way, big deal | 00:43 |
| drobilla | Presumably most significant changes would be in the window setup code which is pretty much unchanged anyway | 00:46 |
| drobilla | But whatever, merge it or don't, I don't really care | 00:47 |
| drobilla | I have plenty of complaints with which to direct future work for the forseeable future. I'll take all these libraries I wrote myself and jam it into LV2 which I mostly wrote myself and it'll all be in one big shiny tarball/git repo with clean documentation which I wrote myself | 00:48 |
| drobilla | Then we see what people complain about next and proceed accordingly | 00:49 |
| drobilla | Onwards and upwards and all of that | 00:49 |
| HarryHaaren_ | i have a MOD, it runs LV2. | 00:50 |
| drobilla | It's funny, voicing my shitty cynical attitude like this makes me feel like a dick, but if I were to make a bar plot of "stuff from other people Re: open source work", complaints would go to the top and you wouldn't even be able to tell all the others from the X axis | 00:51 |
| drobilla | So can't really blame me, even though I *am* kind of a dick :) | 00:51 |
| drobilla | It's just a long many year process of people telling me to go fuck my idiot self in slighly more obscure words | 00:52 |
| drobilla | Present company and some other excellent folks excluded, of course | 00:52 |
| drobilla | (Welcome to winter time in drobillaville) | 00:54 |
| HarryHaaren_ | how many hours sunshine still available there? Its gone pretty scarce here | 00:54 |
| drobilla | HarryHaaren_: I shooooooooould have one, though we'll see if it gets sadly neglected like every other piece of musical hardware around here :/ | 00:55 |
| drobilla | It was actually pretty sunny today and just barely below zero, which was nice | 00:55 |
| drobilla | Currently sun from 7:30..4:20 | 00:56 |
| HarryHaaren_ | below zero? meh, solid 5 degrees here. Not that I was outside. i don't code outside, fingers sieze up in the cold :D | 00:56 |
| drobilla | -16 the other day, then +2, then -8, then 0... it's nuts these days | 00:57 |
| drobilla | Though speaking of hardware, I did hook up my Soundplane the other day (by virtue of having a mac which it actually works with until I write a libusb driver) | 00:58 |
| drobilla | Which makes that whole "how to we send beyond-MIDI stuff to plugins" question a bit more pressing... | 00:58 |
| drobilla | (multi-point gestural surface, polyphonic bend and pressure) | 00:59 |
| drobilla | Well, I mean, in this context, how to actually cram that in a message is pretty obvious | 01:01 |
| drobilla | But I think the key point is sticking that behind an interface so both sender and receiver can be oblivious to it | 01:01 |
| drobilla | Ideally, so you can receive MIDI and fancy-things (objects, OSC, whatever) in exactly the same way | 01:01 |
| drobilla | Bit tricky to do that and retain extensibility, though | 01:02 |
| * HarryHaaren_ doesn't think about these things luckily, other fish to fry :) | 01:03 | |
| drobilla | Wouldn't the world be a wonderful place if C was better at named parameters with type safety... | 01:03 |
| drobilla | rgareus: Re: pugl, just merge it up to whatever most recent commit isn't problematic, the whole history is there | 01:27 |
| drobilla | rgareus: You don't have an actual repo though (?), and I'm not sure I can get a patch queue for just a subdirectory... | 01:27 |
| drobilla | Copy paste code works alright for single header things that nobody changes much, but was a mistake in this case | 01:28 |
| rgareus | drobilla: current state here is https://github.com/x42/robtk/tree/master/pugl - but yes, it's not a separate repo | 01:29 |
| rgareus | drobilla: since robtk is already a submodule to most projects. a nested-submodule is not something that I fancy doing. | 01:30 |
| rgareus | drobilla: that's also on the todo list to sort out somehow | 01:30 |
| drobilla | A straight diff will be hard to work from for the same reasons it's hard for you to merge, but I guess I can pull all the commits that touched pugl and read them | 01:30 |
| rgareus | drobilla: I do want to get closer to upstream pugl and adopt the newer window create,.. set options ... show style | 01:32 |
| rgareus | drobilla: that should make a merge easier | 01:32 |
| drobilla | Yeah, I really should have known better than to ever put a "these parameters ought to be enough for anybody" API out there in the first place | 01:34 |
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| * drobilla removes the "free" from the main page | 23:22 | |
| drobilla | Happy now, you reactionary bastards? :P | 23:22 |
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