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| brummer | morning all | 12:24 |
|---|---|---|
| rgareus | is it morning already? | 12:46 |
| brummer | well, here it is late morning | 12:49 |
| brummer | maybe to late to talk about the new lv2site, or to early? | 12:54 |
| rgareus | depends. drobilla is usually awake/online afternoon/evening US eastern time. ie european night. | 12:55 |
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| brummer | I've seen the post from bruno on the mailinglist, I like the look of it. | 13:08 |
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| rgareus | For the most part, I like it as well. but implementing seems to rather require some heavy web-frameworks (jquery, boostrap..?) | 13:33 |
| rgareus | and none of us is a web-developer who enjoys toying with that stuff. | 13:34 |
| rgareus | IIRC bruno suggested angularjs somewhere. | 13:35 |
| Anchakor | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B18kwfRIgAATPVC.jpg | 13:40 |
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| drobilla | What Anchakor said. | 16:52 |
| drobilla | I mean... look at the site. This needs a Web Application Framework⢠like a hole in the head | 16:58 |
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| brummer | what I like about the screen shoot from bruno is in first place the menu in the header, instead using extra space on the screen. | 17:51 |
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| Anchakor | brummer: can you link the screenshot? | 17:55 |
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| HarryHaaren | Anchakor, they're on the LV2-devel list. Archives don't seem to have that thread included for some reason though | 17:58 |
| HarryHaaren | (here http://lists.lv2plug.in/pipermail/devel-lv2plug.in/2014-November/ ) | 17:58 |
| Anchakor | yeah, that's why I'm asking for the link :) | 18:01 |
| HarryHaaren | i guess nobody will mind me posting here: | 18:01 |
| HarryHaaren | http://openavproductions.com/tmp/lv2screen1.jpg | 18:01 |
| HarryHaaren | http://openavproductions.com/tmp/lv2screen2.jpg | 18:01 |
| HarryHaaren | http://openavproductions.com/tmp/lv2screen3.jpg | 18:01 |
| HarryHaaren | to be totally clear; ^ is the work of Bruno from the MOD team, not (me | OpenAV) 's work | 18:02 |
| brummer | http://i59.tinypic.com/2rpfalz.jpg | 18:02 |
| brummer | late contribution I see | 18:03 |
| Anchakor | looks nice, especially the menu font | 18:03 |
| HarryHaaren | Sure. I think it'd help to have a list of concise points that are the goal of the LV2 site, and to then design around that. | 18:03 |
| HarryHaaren | basically, LV2 site should: | 18:03 |
| Anchakor | for normal text I like the current font and its weight more | 18:04 |
| HarryHaaren | 1: promote LV2 as a plugin spec | 18:04 |
| HarryHaaren | 2: make it clear where to get the download | 18:04 |
| HarryHaaren | 3: give a good overview of what exists in LV2 land | 18:04 |
| brummer | and, this allow to put the text below the images, regardles if you use a bloated framework, or not | 18:04 |
| HarryHaaren | 4: give good clear indication for getting started | 18:04 |
| HarryHaaren | 5: provide links / details for channels of comunication (irc, bugtracker, github etc) | 18:05 |
| HarryHaaren | drobilla, opinions on the above 5 points (in that order)? I'll draft something like that to the ML too in reply to the redesign thread if you think it might be of help? | 18:05 |
| HarryHaaren | aka, the screenshots are currently too prominent, while the details of download are hidden in a menu-option | 18:06 |
| Anchakor | it's not a problem that the landing page (intro page) is just some screenshot and two sentences IMHO, much better then bloated directory page | 18:09 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: +1 | 18:11 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: the screenshots are indeed to prominent at the moment. they should be separated by a heading of something. | 18:12 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: maybe swap (3) and (4) in the order | 18:12 |
| HarryHaaren | sure, items 3 and 4 swapped out | 18:12 |
| HarryHaaren | I'll ping this up to list, and see what other feedback comes around. | 18:13 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: reading again, I's sa 1,2,5,4,3 | 18:13 |
| HarryHaaren | communication before getting started & existing? | 18:13 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: but the last 3 are somewhat equally important, hard to prioritze them | 18:13 |
| HarryHaaren | sure. | 18:13 |
| HarryHaaren | 1 is more of an "bigger goal" than something on the page. | 18:14 |
| HarryHaaren | hmm. I'll write email, keeping rgareus' feedback in mind. cheers. | 18:14 |
| rgareus | HarryHaaren: some people look for bugtracker first, others perfer chat over reading doc, yet others want to see examples and images first.. They should allo be reachable from the front-page. the actual order 3-5 I don't care. | 18:15 |
| HarryHaaren | sure. comms is particularly important for LV2 i think, so why not do 5 4 3 | 18:15 |
| HarryHaaren | people will look for example stuff regardless of if its before or after comms / getting-started | 18:16 |
| * HarryHaaren renumbers points according to new scheme | 18:18 | |
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| brummer | put all menu entrys in the header, and make it consistense over all sites, will negate the order | 18:21 |
| rgareus | brummer: that will reduce prominence | 18:23 |
| rgareus | people look at the content of the site first before looking at the menu | 18:24 |
| rgareus | david considered that | 18:24 |
| brummer | if, on the main site, are only a screenshow, the header menu will become prominent, special, if it exist over all sides | 18:25 |
| brummer | srry, non native english speaker here | 18:27 |
| Anchakor | on most websites I'm looking for an "About" page, now that is "Why LV2?" which is kinda ok | 18:27 |
| rgareus | right. though I think the screenshots should become less prominent and something more like http://openavproductions.com/tmp/mockup.jpg | 18:27 |
| rgareus | with the slideshow below | 18:27 |
| Anchakor | I have one question though: why "LV2 is a platform-agnostic Free Software specification with a liberal license"? | 18:28 |
| Anchakor | I think "Free Software" automatically scares some people away | 18:28 |
| Anchakor | like thinking "ok this is GPL stuff, can't use that" | 18:28 |
| ax | i think people have to learn to understand what 'free software' means, the 'liberal license' helps baby it down for those who need a little hand holding | 18:30 |
| brummer | <rgareus> the screen is limited in hight more then in width, so a slideshow below something, makes no sence for me | 18:31 |
| Anchakor | I generally think "teaching people what words mean" is contraproductive when you are "selling" something to somebody | 18:33 |
| ax | but it _is_ free software, the tagline is a very consise description of what it is | 18:35 |
| Anchakor | not really, Free Software is usually understood as viral open source license like GPL | 18:37 |
| Anchakor | while the lv2 headers are some kind of BSD/MIT license | 18:37 |
| Anchakor | and linking to GNU website doesn't really help to convey that either | 18:40 |
| ax | so? s/ Free Software// | 18:41 |
| HarryHaaren | new email sent to list, with new attached screeny | 18:41 |
| Anchakor | ax: yeah that would solve that | 18:41 |
| Anchakor | though doesn't hurt to have licensing info somewhere on the website too, that is usually one second thing I'm looking for when looking at some software website | 18:42 |
| HarryHaaren | link: http://openavproductions.com/tmp/lv2_mockup_2.png | 18:43 |
| * HarryHaaren away for a bit | 18:44 | |
| ax | Anchakor: i guess liberal license should be enough.. i for one think that the 'free software' thing is a positive, but, i do get what you're saying.. | 18:45 |
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| * HarryHaaren 's email to LV2-devel awaits approval due to attached image. Please hold :) | 19:00 | |
| brummer | bye | 19:13 |
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| drobilla | Anchakor: Well, that's what "liberal license" means. | 22:48 |
| drobilla | It's too long winded and redundant to have half a paragraph about how you're allowed to use it for proprietary stuff | 22:48 |
| drobilla | As if some commercial developer seriously considering it in the first place is going to read that sentence and decide otherwise based solely on that... | 22:49 |
| Anchakor | well the sentence isn't very clear, as it mention "Free Software" linking to GNU website | 22:49 |
| drobilla | I think it's perfectly clear. | 22:50 |
| drobilla | Feel free to write one you feel is more so. | 22:50 |
| Anchakor | like ax said, just s/ Free Software// and it's fine | 22:51 |
| drobilla | Meh. Why? | 22:51 |
| Anchakor | Free Software is usually understood as having a viral open source license like GPL | 22:51 |
| drobilla | Is it? | 22:52 |
| Anchakor | yes | 22:52 |
| drobilla | So says you. | 22:52 |
| drobilla | I could call it some wishy washy "open standard" thing, I suppose | 22:52 |
| drobilla | If I gave a shit | 22:52 |
| drobilla | Which I don't, really | 22:52 |
| drobilla | Could actually link to the license, I suppose. | 22:54 |
| Anchakor | that would be good too | 22:54 |
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| Anchakor | it is usually one second thing I'm looking for on SW websites | 22:55 |
| drobilla | I will do that. It's deliberately the simplest and least possibly offensive/exclusive license I could find, so this is hardly an actual problem | 22:57 |
| drobilla | I will, however, continue to call this piece of free software as such, and will not miss anyone with a potent enough combination of ignorance and dickheadedness to be repelled by that alone ;) | 22:57 |
| Anchakor | fair enough if that is your goal :) | 22:58 |
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| drobilla | Well, let me put it this way: I will make things better in the hopes of attracting more people, even if it's an unlikely hypothetical, because... well, better is better | 23:02 |
| drobilla | I won't, however, adopt some impotent attitude, deathly afraid of mentioning any idea at all that might scare away some hypothetical douchebag, because that sucks. | 23:03 |
| drobilla | The thing on the other end of the scale needs to be *real*, for that. | 23:03 |
| drobilla | And ultimately if I didn't care about free software, I wouldn't be doing this. I can't imagine why anyone else would, either. | 23:03 |
| Anchakor | you already removed "RDF" from the "book"/guide :) | 23:05 |
| Anchakor | (if you ever used it there anyway) | 23:06 |
| drobilla | Sure did. Because the sebmweb community failed so incredibly hard at what "RDF" seems to be if you go look it up, it's better that way. | 23:07 |
| drobilla | Would have been better to not associate with it whatsoever, probably, but doesn't matter now. | 23:07 |
| drobilla | Hardly the same anyway | 23:08 |
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